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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,485
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillerWisperer View Post
    Vegas lives on water cooled centrifugals...there's like 3000 of them in the metro area, and they all use evaporative cooling as the first stage of cooling, so to speak.
    What the heck is a water cooled centrifugal?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,326
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillerWisperer View Post
    Vegas lives on water cooled centrifugals...there's like 3000 of them in the metro area, and they all use evaporative cooling as the first stage of cooling, so to speak.
    Gotta wonder what cooling tower efficiencies run like out there in the desert. 110 degrees at a 68 degree wet bulb entering air temp...if the tower can make a seven degree approach at full load it can feed 75 degree water to the condenser.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southern Calif.
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by jimj View Post
    How about 3 to 15 gallons per hour! You should be bleeding off 12oz. of water every 90 seconds to keep your scale down. Do the math.

    Don't believe me, turn off your water for an hour and look in the wet section.
    No, I don't bleed anything off. I don't believe you have yours set up right. because mine runs great. We actually are banned from bleed off. It’s against the law and has a hefty fine. I know the manufacture suggests bleed off to prevent mineral deposits, but I have never done it in 20 years. Like I said I change my pads along with a water change twice a seasion and that’s it.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyB60 View Post
    No, I don't bleed anything off. Like I said I change my pads along with a water change twice a seasion and thats it.
    To funny, you change your water twice a year?
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  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southern Calif.
    Posts
    110
    My AC unit is about 20 years old and it probably gets used maybe 1 to 2 weeks a year, so its like new. I think it was last year or maybe the year before, but we had rain clouds hanging around for about a month. It wasnt actually raining except for a very little up in the mountains, but the humidity was high enough to make the cooler useless, so I ran the AC almost the whole time. My electric bill was close to $600 total for everything that month. Its now running about $150, but I got 3 women and a baby living here so my washer & dryer is running all the time along with at least 2 TVs, 3 computers, and I dont even want to know what else.

    I dont know exactly what I would save by upgrading the AC seer rating, but Im pretty sure it isnt going to be over $450 a month. I would have to build me a whole new house with double the R rating to save that amount of money.

    I may sit down and figure it out someday, but I also know that the blown-in insulation in the attic is not the same R value as it was 20 years ago.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Bennington, Vermont U.S.A.
    Posts
    13,864
    Home Depot had a little swamp cooler that a person was supposed to put in thier window.

    They would be completely useless IMO for anyone around here with our 70-90% RH summers. But still people were buying them thinking that they were going to get a jump on the world. "how come they don't work?????"

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southern Calif.
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by benncool View Post
    Home Depot had a little swamp cooler that a person was supposed to put in thier window.

    They would be completely useless IMO for anyone around here with our 70-90% RH summers. But still people were buying them thinking that they were going to get a jump on the world. "how come they don't work?????"
    That reminds me of my mother-in-law.

    I installed a swamp cooler in her house and set everything up for her with thermostat so she wouldn’t have to fool with it. I heard her telling my wife that it was not working very well, so I went over to check it out. I could not believe it, she had every door and window closed. It was like being in tropical rain forest and I believe it would have started raining inside at anytime. I quickly opened all doors and windows to get all the humidity out. It finally cooled down and she said that she was afraid to keep the windows open when she was alone. So I went straight to Home Depot and bought a whole house fan. Problem solved.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    houston, texas
    Posts
    3,787
    Lots of swampers in west and southwest Texas. People there don't want refer, they are happy with the evap coolers. Always wondered about the water thats being used especially since it's not in endless supply anymore.
    I'm not tolerating Political Correctness anymore, from now on it's tell it like it is.

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  9. #22
    A rather unsatisfying discussion. Similar to what I'm finding as far as trying to find a good swamp cooler contractor.

    I think evap cooling is being treated as the "bastard stepchild" of the HVAC industry because there's too much maintenance and homeowner involvement required. If the average H.O. paid to have it done correctly (unlikely) the maintenance costs would equal his energy savings.

    Those of us who spend about 4hrs/year fiddling with them ourselves couldn't be happier (.in Denver's climate anyway). Unfortunately, the 4 hrs. would have to be spread to about 6 service calls from a pro.

    It costs me $20/month to cool a house that would run $160 with conventional A/C. The cooling season is roughly 4 months. Two more keys to cooler happiness: 1. Overcool your house at night, 2. Never run the swampie if the ambient temperature gets above about 80*.

    Nowadays, to a professional couple who paid $500,000 to $1.5M for their house, this much involvement is unacceptable.

    (Note to Garya505: Pollen gets scrubbed from the air that passes thru a cooler. I have seen a little mold on the inside of cooler occasionally, however.)

    So here's my question - Does anyone make a controller that can run these things correctly?
    Last edited by kevin_in_denver; 09-03-2009 at 04:42 PM. Reason: add note to Gary

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Seabeck, Wa.
    Posts
    55
    I've only got one I'm responsible for. It's the make-up air for a big kitchen hood. The summertime rooftop RH here in the Pacific Northwest is pretty low so it's very effective in cooling the air. When I got it working and turned on the water, the cooks thought I had rerouted some AC. It's a pretty old unit that looks like it's had a lot of use. Only thing I'm worried about is remembering to isolate and drain the water line before freezing weather gets here. Didn't see any mold but it had set dry for quite awhile.

  11. #24
    Commercial kitchen makeup air is often passed through a swamp cooler, even in humid environments. Better than nothing, since conventional AC is impractical for that much air volume.

    If Evaporative Cooling (EC) replaced AC in all the cities and towns where it works well, this country would literally never need to build a new power plant. That's because all of our plants are severely underutilized except for a couple weeks in the height of summer when AC units are running full tilt. EC where effective would shave that peak demand, and brownouts would cease until we get enough photovoltaic and wind generation capacity installed. Then we can start decomissioning the coal plants, and voila, EC has solved global warming!

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_in_denver View Post
    Commercial kitchen makeup air is often passed through a swamp cooler, even in humid environments. Better than nothing, since conventional AC is impractical for that much air volume.

    If Evaporative Cooling (EC) replaced AC in all the cities and towns where it works well, this country would literally never need to build a new power plant. That's because all of our plants are severely underutilized except for a couple weeks in the height of summer when AC units are running full tilt. EC where effective would shave that peak demand, and brownouts would cease until we get enough photovoltaic and wind generation capacity installed. Then we can start decomissioning the coal plants, and voila, EC has solved global warming!
    Sounds too good to be true. Where can I find this data?

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    540
    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_in_denver View Post
    Commercial kitchen makeup air is often passed through a swamp cooler, even in humid environments. Better than nothing, since conventional AC is impractical for that much air volume.

    If Evaporative Cooling (EC) replaced AC in all the cities and towns where it works well, this country would literally never need to build a new power plant. That's because all of our plants are severely underutilized except for a couple weeks in the height of summer when AC units are running full tilt. EC where effective would shave that peak demand, and brownouts would cease until we get enough photovoltaic and wind generation capacity installed. Then we can start decomissioning the coal plants, and voila, EC has solved global warming!
    Yeah, with all that money saved on power, we could build a whole bunch of desalinization plants we would need to supply all that extra water.
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