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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Could it be that code calls for installation of those items but that they were never checked for proper operation by the inspectors?
    I have seen many installs using the smoke detectors, and many more without. This could depend on when the building was originally constructed, and in what municipality.

    Most of the options are not of a nature that they would be required by code.
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  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I have seen many installs using the smoke detectors, and many more without. This could depend on when the building was originally constructed, and in what municipality.

    Most of the options are not of a nature that they would be required by code.
    Here in Beaufort County, and I think statewide, if we replace the AH in a commercial site and, for instance, it does not have fresh air, we are required to bring it up to code. Same for fire dampers and any other code issue. Maybe it's the same in the OP.
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  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Here in Beaufort County, and I think statewide, if we replace the AH in a commercial site and, for instance, it does not have fresh air, we are required to bring it up to code. Same for fire dampers and any other code issue. Maybe it's the same in the OP.
    Wow.

    I can't imagine a 35 year old mall without fresh air being forced to add it. Might as well tear it down and start over.
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  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Wow.

    I can't imagine a 35 year old mall without fresh air being forced to add it. Might as well tear it down and start over.
    Guess that takes the "V" out of HVAC. So now you are left with HAC!


    Ironic.

    How can a commercial building, such as a mall, not mix in fresh air? Unbelievable.
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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by whec720 View Post
    Guess that takes the "V" out of HVAC. So now you are left with HAC!


    Ironic.

    How can a commercial building, such as a mall, not mix in fresh air? Unbelievable.
    Easy. There are many "older" malls. King of Prussia Plaza outside of Philadelphia has a section that dates back to 1964. I was 12.

    Older malls use individual units. Some stores have RTU's, and SOME of them have economizers. Many don't. But, we are talking about air handlers here.

    Other stores use split systems, and most of them were never configured with a fresh air/economizer duct system feeding the air handler.

    So, when replacing an air handler in such a retail store as previously mentioned, you would...what? Get the engineering firm involved and construct a fresh air duct for that store?

    See what I mean? If code requires fresh air when an air handler is replaced.....
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  6. #19
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    Now back to the original post.

    Just a couple of days ago. I was helping out a new service tech. with a newer model Trane and I said Leave it to Trane to make something simple like heating and cooling air complicated. Just like a Trane water source heat pump that you have to remove the entire control panel just to check the capacitor for the compressor. Which is always good and the compressor is shot. I would like to give the engineer that designed it a peice of my mind. And from most of the enginers I have talked to he could probably use it.

    You others might think that the neat lights to diagnose a unit is great, but remember this any half ***ed service tech can figuire out problem. Your days could be numbered.

    I was told by Rheem. The reason they decided to install their neat little board with the numbered display was to make it possible for a one year service tech. to diagnose the problem. I told him then that I had sold my last Rheem.

    Now it looks like the manufacturers are trying to replace experienced techs. with younger and cheaper techs. Most shops will have to have at least one experienced techs. and a bunch of parts changers. That is the reason I left the residential field and moved to a commercial/industrial company.

  7. #20
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    What you have described is the natural evolution of technology. The "check engine light" of air conditioning. It's coming.

    Now, a lot of people cannot afford to put the whiz-bang stuff over their little hair salon space, so our jobs are safe for the next 15 years or so. Right about the time I stop climbing ladders.
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  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Easy. There are many "older" malls. King of Prussia Plaza outside of Philadelphia has a section that dates back to 1964. I was 12.

    Older malls use individual units. Some stores have RTU's, and SOME of them have economizers. Many don't. But, we are talking about air handlers here.

    Other stores use split systems, and most of them were never configured with a fresh air/economizer duct system feeding the air handler.

    So, when replacing an air handler in such a retail store as previously mentioned, you would...what? Get the engineering firm involved and construct a fresh air duct for that store?

    See what I mean? If code requires fresh air when an air handler is replaced.....
    Guess I didn't look at that way. Your exactly right.
    "Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better"
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  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by fv_tom View Post
    Why is it that I keep coming across rooftop units (mostly Lennox it seems) which are way over-complicated and have so many optional features which are never used?

    How much more is the customer paying for a unit with the option for zoning, fire alarm integration, smoke detectors, etc. when they're not even being used? It's just a 2-stage rooftop for pete's sake!

    Is it just to keep the plumbers from working on it?
    those options are standard on L series systems. so the end user isn't paying extra for the options as they would other brands. i like it cause it keeps contractors from cheaping out on options that i feel as a tech needs to be in the system.

    i love the L series lennox RTU's. noting easier in the world to work on IMHO

    and everybody here know's that am a huge trane fan...
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  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by meoberry View Post
    Now back to the original post.

    Just a couple of days ago. I was helping out a new service tech. with a newer model Trane and I said Leave it to Trane to make something simple like heating and cooling air complicated. Just like a Trane water source heat pump that you have to remove the entire control panel just to check the capacitor for the compressor. Which is always good and the compressor is shot. I would like to give the engineer that designed it a peice of my mind. And from most of the enginers I have talked to he could probably use it
    How about the Carrier WSHP, where the compressor was in the middle of the serpentine, water coil. On the plus side the the boss couldn't throw a 5 ton compressor at you and tell you to walk it up the ladder to install it above the ceiling by yourself.

    Always liked when he'd say "What's your problem, 'Bill' puts in one a week that way" Bill looked like a WWF wrestler.



    In his late Fifties, only thing is he was in his mid twenties

  11. #24
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    NW Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhat View Post
    How about the Carrier WSHP, where the compressor was in the middle of the serpentine, water coil. On the plus side the the boss couldn't throw a 5 ton compressor at you and tell you to walk it up the ladder to install it above the ceiling by yourself.

    Always liked when he'd say "What's your problem, 'Bill' puts in one a week that way" Bill looked like a WWF wrestler.



    In his late Fifties, only thing is he was in his mid twenties
    Tell Bill to do it then. Yeah, and when you hurt your back they will want to lay you off.
    They threw a 10 ton compressor at me to go up two flights of stairs and lift 5' to install in unit on top of a condo. 100 percent addison package. The factory supplied compressor. Suction and discharge where not only different sizes but where in different locations. Took two men 8 hours to replace. That included two trips to supply house for copper fittings. Did I mention supply house was 25 miles one way.

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