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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    354

    overkill - rooftop units

    Why is it that I keep coming across rooftop units (mostly Lennox it seems) which are way over-complicated and have so many optional features which are never used?

    How much more is the customer paying for a unit with the option for zoning, fire alarm integration, smoke detectors, etc. when they're not even being used? It's just a 2-stage rooftop for pete's sake!

    Is it just to keep the plumbers from working on it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Grundy Co. IL
    Posts
    773
    Why aren't the options being used?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,916
    There are units from the same mfrs. that are basic. If you don't need the features, don't buy the fancy units. Seems that the L-series is the most respected rooftop out there these days from how easy it is to work on.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,229
    I agree the L-series is the best RTU on the market today. Their self test features and the two digit diagnostic display makes the lennox RTU the easiest to diagnose, in my opnion.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger93rsl View Post
    I agree the L-series is the best RTU on the market today. Their self test features and the two digit diagnostic display makes the lennox RTU the easiest to diagnose, in my opnion.
    I agree.

    Let's use a car analogy.

    If you order a car (or a service truck) with crank windows, and you take off the inner door panel, you will see that there is a wiring harness connector for the power motor and the window switch, along with the power locks. The car is configured to easily accept the optional equipment that is offered.

    The L-Series does a lot of things as a baseline unit, but it is just as cost effective to make it easily expandable using the small boards that are mounted on the A55 board on standoffs. Sometimes, the ETCO settings are not set up correctly, and you will see a spurious code for say, a humidity sensor that was never installed.

    On the whole, this unit design is tech-friendly. The only thing it needs is pressure transducers and thermistors for SC and SH!!

    My favorite feature is that if is sees a low pressure switch open (S78?) three times, it locks out that compressor to protect it. And, it then generates a no AC service call, allowing us to get to the unit before if burns up that compressor.

    While the wiring diagrams are unnecessarily strange, these are good units that are pretty easy to service and the parts are good quality.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Much love for the L-Series!

    Gotta love a unit that has all the compressors on a raised platform that allows you to stand up with full access to them with the unit in normal operation.

    2 thumbs up for being able to easily slide the blower out far enough to have full access for work on the belts, pulleys, bearings and motor comfortably without having to haul the whole assembly out of the unit.

    There are some serious advantages to a unit that has 4 compressors, each with its own refrigerant circuit, over a system with 1 or 2 large compressors.
    If one of them goes down, that circuit can be removed from service until the compressor is replaced, and replacing 1 of 4 5 ton scroll compressors is one hell of a lot cheaper than replacing 1 20 ton compressor.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    4,356
    Spend a day servicing Tranes and Carriers, then the Lennox won't seem so bad. Nothing too wrong with Trane or Carrier, just not as easy to work on as the Lennox.
    Put together a pdf collection of Lennox O&Ms on your thumb. Read through them and you'll learn to love these units.
    "Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better"
    -Pat Riley

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,457
    Turn those options into money when you can,if it will benefit the customer of course. I always try and improve any unit i work on during PM'S
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,907
    Quote Originally Posted by zachhvac View Post
    Turn those options into money when you can,if it will benefit the customer of course. I always try and improve any unit i work on during PM'S
    Usually, I have found that trying to improve a unit that was furnished by a landlord to a commercial lessee, who uses a third party service broker like Comfort or First, gives you a chance of success of "slim" and "none."

    Their only concern, based on what I have experienced, is "does it work?"
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,457
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Usually, I have found that trying to improve a unit that was furnished by a landlord to a commercial lessee, who uses a third party service broker like Comfort or First, gives you a chance of success of "slim" and "none."

    Their only concern, based on what I have experienced, is "does it work?"
    True. i posted pics on wall of shame of exactly that.
    If the customer owns the unit then its on them.
    I never understood why more landlords do not go after their previous tenants who destroy their units and instead turn them over top the next poor schmuck.
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,907
    Quote Originally Posted by zachhvac View Post
    True. i posted pics on wall of shame of exactly that.
    If the customer owns the unit then its on them.
    I never understood why more landlords do not go after their previous tenants who destroy their units and instead turn them over top the next poor schmuck.
    In commercial leases used in Pennsylvania, the landlord supplies operational units at the commencement of the lease, and the lessee must make certain that all systems are operating at the end of the lease. Some landlords are more savvy in this area than others. An inspection of the property by a trained inspector can result in a charge-back to the security deposit of the departing tenant.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Could it be that code calls for installation of those items but that they were never checked for proper operation by the inspectors?
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,457
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    In commercial leases used in Pennsylvania, the landlord supplies operational units at the commencement of the lease, and the lessee must make certain that all systems are operating at the end of the lease. Some landlords are more savvy in this area than others. An inspection of the property by a trained inspector can result in a charge-back to the security deposit of the departing tenant.
    Thats the way it should be.
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

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