Roof job finally done.. warning I posted a book

[ga-hvac-tech]

Well said, i do not go to work for the state, or any other form of government. I go to work for me,my work is a reflection of me. Having a degree, local or state, license, journeyman card etc. Has nothing to do with what type of mechanic you are.
Those that shout about their piece of paper probably do very poor work. Keep in mind the people doing these jobs are for the most part the employees not the owners, and the employees do not carry the license the owner does.

Well said! Quality is an attitude and mindset, not a license.

And just to throw another can of gas on the fire... If the trade cannot do quality without Big Brother looking over their shoulder; well that does not say much for the trade...

Wise consumers can find a quality minded person to do their work. Folks that have not learned that talent WILL if the nanny government will just get out of the way.

[Some Dude]

I ask for constrictive criticism ion a regular basis, it can only improve me , even if the one giving it is in error. AT LEAST YOU KNOW WHO NOT TO LISTEN TO.

If PRA want to go up on a roof in tennis shoes to take pics so be it.
Im also sure that the soft solder joints were staybrite #8 a totally acceptable way to install refrigerant lines.
What i disagree with is the way one person in particular continually bashed him in a vain effort to make themselves look good.
99% of the people on this site will help you if you need it, many times without you ever asking.
I value almost everyones input but to continually bash a persons work or second guess them in an open public forum is distasteful and imo shows a utter lack of character.
Hopefully this is now finished, i dont think prah deserved what he got.
peace

[bwalley]

Well said! Quality is an attitude and mindset, not a license.

And just to throw another can of gas on the fire... If the trade cannot do quality without Big Brother looking over their shoulder; well that does not say much for the trade...

Wise consumers can find a quality minded person to do their work. Folks that have not learned that talent WILL if the nanny government will just get out of the way.

The problem with no inspections and lack of licensing ends up having contractors doing the job to even lower standards then if there was even the minimal oversight.

The contractor here didn't even realize the job he was working on was considered a commercial job and that tennis shoes were not allowed on commercial jobs, he also mounted disconnects on the service panels of the condensing units.

Some people meet or exceed the code, others don't even have to worry about it because no one checks on their work.

The governments job is to protect the health and well being of the public, one way that is accomplished is through licensing of contractors and having minimum building code requirements, one reason why the United States doesn't have building and bridges collapsing on a regular basis like in other countries is because of building codes and the enforcement of them.

Here are a couple of RTU, we had to cut the roof to install the curbs.

raeely not worth posting but since you guys asked, I will post pictures of some of my other work.

[houtonjr]

did you just get those from there website???

[bwalley]

did you just get those from there website???

If you are talking to me, they are on a job I did a few years back that I was on today, they wanted to see pictures of jobs I did.

I am not sure what a picture of a RTU will show them, on these 2 RTU's I had to cut the roof and install the curbs, then fly in the equipment with a crane.

The other units on this job were just change outs with modification of the existing curbs with fillers and modifying the existing ductwork to accomodate the buildout.

I prefer not to use existing curbs as they typically do not fit the new equipment like the OEM curbs do, but in this case the curbs were larger, so making the RTU's fit was not an issue.

On the units we added, we used OEM curbs and had to make structural alterations to the bar joists and deck to accomodate the new RTU's.

[Twilly]

Twilli find BW job....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg1gV81GNtM

[bwalley]

Twilli find BW job....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg1gV81GNtM

This job must have been done in Illinois or one of the other states that don't require licenses, permits or inspections.

In Florida that job would have had multiple Red Tags.

[Some Dude]

Twilli find BW job....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg1gV81GNtM

Dude bwalley only bids the big jobs 1000000 or more

[praha99]

In my contract/estimate I had a clause to the effect that any units with leaking valves or units that could not be fully pumped down would carry a freon surcharge.. that charge turned out to be $1688.
The roofer is now refusing to pay it. He is charging the association the full amount but as he told me he wants to make some extra money (of my hard labor)
Nice huh?

I spoke with my lawyer, he advised me to bring the association up to speed, the assocation/management company, who is paying the Roofer, who is supposed to pay me as a sub, that I will be placing a Mechanics Lien on the property and all warranties are currently on hold till full payment is made.
I don`t know what else to do.

[ga-hvac-tech]

The problem with no inspections and lack of licensing ends up having contractors doing the job to even lower standards then if there was even the minimal oversight.

The contractor here didn't even realize the job he was working on was considered a commercial job and that tennis shoes were not allowed on commercial jobs, he also mounted disconnects on the service panels of the condensing units.

Some people meet or exceed the code, others don't even have to worry about it because no one checks on their work.

The governments job is to protect the health and well being of the public, one way that is accomplished is through licensing of contractors and having minimum building code requirements, one reason why the United States doesn't have building and bridges collapsing on a regular basis like in other countries is because of building codes and the enforcement of them.

Here are a couple of RTU, we had to cut the roof to install the curbs.

raeely not worth posting but since you guys asked, I will post pictures of some of my other work.

The government wants us to see them as their protector... you seem to have bought that lie pretty well. What they really want is the power to tell you what to do. And believe me, it has nothing to do with your well being. Rather it is nothing more or less than lust for power. So tell me:

How much government interference is too much? What part(s) of your life would you rebel against the government if they tried to tell you what to do? And at what level would you march on Wash DC to stop the government from taking control of things you did not want them dictating to you?

In relation to your comment about the project that started this thread: In the Constitution of the USA, it is clearly stated what the federal government does; and it says clearly that all other things are 'states rights'. So what Florida chooses to do has no bearing on what any of the other 49 states choose to do... and it goes the other way also: What the other 49 states choose has no bearing on Florida.

My advise: Mr Bwalley: Just wait until you get a thorough screwing by a government agency, the case is totally wrong but the govt lawyers spin it so they win and you loose, and the beaurocrat uses it to build his/her career at your expense. I guarantee you will have a different attitude then.

Does anyone have a story of being screwed by the government they would like to tell?

[gasoilair]

In my contract/estimate I had a clause to the effect that any units with leaking valves or units that could not be fully pumped down would carry a freon surcharge.. that charge turned out to be $1688.
The roofer is now refusing to pay it. He is charging the association the full amount but as he told me he wants to make some extra money (of my hard labor)
Nice huh?

I spoke with my lawyer, he advised me to bring the association up to speed, the assocation/management company, who is paying the Roofer, who is supposed to pay me as a sub, that I will be placing a Mechanics Lien on the property and all warranties are currently on hold till full payment is made.
I don`t know what else to do.

That's why I refuse to work as a sub for anyone 100%. I'll deal with the cust directly, or forget it. Is that $1688 all your behind by, or does he still owe other money?

Do just like your doing and bring it to managements attention. Inform them, in a nicely written letter, that the roofer is refusing you payment on a satisfied contract, and that all manufacturers warranties and installation warranties are null and void if the contract isn't fulfilled. (If they still owe him money, this will turn the heat on if they think they have 20ish units on the roof without warranty coverage.) Place the mech's lean against the property, and lastly, go to the courthouse for the town this job was in and file in small claims against the roofer. If your contract is clear, and he violated it, your almost certain to win against him. Bump it up a bit, say to 2200 to cover travel expenses, loss of wages, and your costs to file. Ask that any rewarded monies be paid net in 30 days.

It is normal for a primary GC to up the costs of his subs and make a few bucks from the customer, (simple markup), BUT, your bills to him are due in full. If he wants to mark it up and charge the cust more than your charges and make a few bucks, that's totally between him and the cust.


Also: Thanks for the response to my Q about the trailers effectiveness a couple pages back. I also went and checked out the site listed on the side of it. Very nice. It gives me a coupe of idea's that I think I could make work for us.

Thanks, and good luck against that jackass roofer. I'm sure you'll be fine.

Later

[Lash]

When the government issues minimum standards, that becomes the quality standard of the job... however;

When the marketplace decides what the quality standards are, then the customer has to get involved. I like a customer that is involved... as an informed customer is my best customer.

On the other hand, the ones that depend on the government think they will get the same quality regardless of the price... and they just try for the lowest bid. And we know what happens when one takes the low bid... they get what they pay for.

Amen to that!

[gasoilair]

Twilli find BW job....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg1gV81GNtM

Hey Twillie, GasOilAir had found another one.

Watch this one all the way, some of the stuff here in hysterical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLWDdHL2rag

[praha99]

That's why I refuse to work as a sub for anyone 100%. I'll deal with the cust directly, or forget it. Is that $1688 all your behind by, or does he still owe other money?

Makes sense...They owe me the full boat, also it`s 60 units without warranty now
Ball will be in their court, faxes and certified letters go out tommorrow.

[Twilly]

Twilli says nice deck

[sirjames]

[The governments job is to protect the health and well being of the public, one way that is accomplished is through licensing of contractors and having minimum building code requirements, one reason why the United States doesn't have building and bridges collapsing on a regular basis like in other countries is because of building codes and the enforcement of them.
[/QUOTE]

Last time I heard of a bridge collapsing it was in the USA,seems the gov inspections didn`t do to well in that case.

[bwalley]

[The governments job is to protect the health and well being of the public, one way that is accomplished is through licensing of contractors and having minimum building code requirements, one reason why the United States doesn't have building and bridges collapsing on a regular basis like in other countries is because of building codes and the enforcement of them.

Last time I heard of a bridge collapsing it was in the USA,seems the gov inspections didn`t do to well in that case.[/QUOTE]



The Bridge was built as designed and it was inspected, the problems was not due to the fact it was inspected, it was due to an engineering mistake, the inspectors in the field do not evaluate the design of a structure, or bridge, they make sure it is built per the plans.

The engineering error should have been caught during the design phase and then it should have been caught during the plan review, yet it wasn't, the system isn't perfect but if it weren't for minimum standards, licensing, permits and inspections, there would be more bridge and structure failures.

I have no problem with my work being inspected and do just as good a job whether it is being inspected or not, it is my reputataion on the line with every job I do, so I am not going do a half assed job just because I can get away with it.

Another reason why, licensing, building codes and inpsections are a good idea is the general public has no idea the difference between a good job and a bad job especially in areas like HVAC, as long as the unit makes them comfortable, they think they had a good job done, and as long as a house looks nice, they think everything is good, even if it does have serious structural flaws.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Another reason why, licensing, building codes and inpsections are a good idea is the general public has no idea the difference between a good job and a bad job especially in areas like HVAC, as long as the unit makes them comfortable, they think they had a good job done, and as long as a house looks nice, they think everything is good, even if it does have serious structural flaws.

I agree, the public does not know...

IMO the reason the public does not know is they are lazy and they depend on the government. But the government does not do the job well, and politics always enter the equation.

My experience is the customer that takes the time to understand gets a better job. The customer that does not bother (just trusts the government to take care of them) usually gets the job that just barely meets the minimum standards of the codes.

Now lets try something: If you were the consumer; would you just blindly trust the government, or would you get involved in the details? and more importantly, WHY would you take the path you chose?

[Some Dude]

bwalley has taken so many indefensible positions its sad.
First of all for someone who has repeatedly accused me of being a liberal he sure sings the party line.
Second these jobs are bid and spec hes referring to, anybody ever try and reason or argue with an engineer? The government
Third he has said he doesnt take pics of his work, then he says he does.
Fourth when he does its a rtu so old the stickers are pealing off, is that the only job you've done? There is no way you should have a pro membership, your a builder, and probably a cheap one. taking credit for work that isnt even yours. Shame on you.

[bwalley]

bwalley has taken so many indefensible positions its sad.
First of all for someone who has repeatedly accused me of being a liberal he sure sings the party line.
Second these jobs are bid and spec hes referring to, anybody ever try and reason or argue with an engineer? The government
Third he has said he doesnt take pics of his work, then he says he does.
Fourth when he does its a rtu so old the stickers are pealing off, is that the only job you've done? There is no way you should have a pro membership, your a builder, and probably a cheap one. taking credit for work that isnt even yours. Shame on you.

You seem to have a problem with basic reading and comprehension, below is what I said.

BTW do you have a License, I listed my license numbers, yet you have never answered the question about you having a license or even what state you live in, for all we know you are the parts runner for an A/C company.

The Reason I have a Pro membership is because I have proven I am a Licensed Air Conditioning Contractor as well as a Licensed Building Contractor, BTW the date on my Ferris State EPA Certification is 12/1993.

How long have you been the parts runner for an A/C company?

I will post some pictures of my work, but what are you going to be able to tell by looking at some airhandlers, condensing units, RTU's?

I don't take pictures of condensing units or an airhandlers, but if that is what you want, I will take some of a commercial job I did a few years ago that I will be at tommorow.

The commercial job I am on now we haven't started on the HVAC yet, but I will be happy to post pictures of it.

Where are your pictures?