Roof job finally done.. warning I posted a book

[Some Dude]

Praha ur a perty man, im proud to be your friend.

[bwalley]

I got a newsflash for you Valley Walley just cause you got some piece of paper from some Gov. agency doesn`t make you the superman of HVAC..

Im a hack I admit it, without a a license all of us in Illinois are according to you.. ALL hacks because without the GOV. I just don`t know what to do on my own, I need nObama to tell me what to do every step of the way

heres some of my other hack work ( I have yet to see even one of your installs btw,) I`m betting you have nothing to show right now. probably waiting to do that one a/c that takes you all day just so you make no mistakes and you can take pics of it lol

well heres more of my non licensed hackery:


Look at those hacked up holes we make.. just horrible, if only I had the gov. to give me a license, I could be so much better lol

This work looks pretty good, do you sub out your sheet metal work or do it in house?

BTW the state of Florida doesn't just give out licenses, We have to prove we know what we are doing, to get a license, Illinois doesn't even require HVAC contractors or General contractors to be licensed, anyone can be a contractor up there.

[bwalley]

And i am the best in the nearest three states and i have sandy blonde hair, and all the girls dig me and im a contractor, and im the best, and i only do things perfectly and im the best and i have my own company and i hire and fire at will and im the best and we have very stringent licensing that only i can pass and im special and im the best...period. And if you dont believe me just ask and i will tell you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,im the best.

For a guy who has me on ignore, you sure flap your jaw alot.

[ga-hvac-tech]

When the government issues minimum standards, that becomes the quality standard of the job... however;

When the marketplace decides what the quality standards are, then the customer has to get involved. I like a customer that is involved... as an informed customer is my best customer. Most of the 'tech types' and 'engineers' like me because they know I am dedicated to quality... they can 'SEE' it.

On the other hand, the ones that depend on the government think they will get the same quality regardless of the price... and they just try for the lowest bid. And we know what happens when one takes the low bid... they get what they pay for.

There is literally NOTHING the government has ever taken control of that is a better value than what private enterprise does. NOTHING!

As you can tell, I tend toward libertarian views...

[bwalley]

When the government issues minimum standards, that becomes the quality standard of the job... however;

When the marketplace decides what the quality standards are, then the customer has to get involved. I like a customer that is involved... as an informed customer is my best customer. Most of the 'tech types' and 'engineers' like me because they know I am dedicated to quality... they can 'SEE' it.

On the other hand, the ones that depend on the government think they will get the same quality regardless of the price... and they just try for the lowest bid. And we know what happens when one takes the low bid... they get what they pay for.

There is literally NOTHING the government has ever taken control of that is a better value than what private enterprise does. NOTHING!

As you can tell, I tend toward libertarian views...

The problem with just following building code is, it is the minimum standard.

The reason states that require competency testing, building codes and inspections is because it raises standards, it does not lower standards.

Many people will not even follow the minimum standards unless they have to because of inspections, apparently Illinois does not require inspections or even licenses for HVAC work.

One reason why I was criticized for pointing out a few problems with this job was due to budget constraints, so it appears that some contractors will do sub standard work just to get the job because the client doesn't want to pay to do it right.

This guy has a nice trailer and some nice trucks, based on his website he has a few pictures of his work, the majority of them are the ones posted here and soem stock photo's and pictures of his trailer, his duct cleaning equipment and some other tools.

I will post some pictures of my work, but what are you going to be able to tell by looking at some airhandlers, condensing units, RTU's?

I don't take pictures of condensing units or an airhandlers, but if that is what you want, I will take some of a commercial job I did a few years ago that I will be at tommorow.

The commercial job I am on now we haven't started on the HVAC yet, but I will be happy to post pictures of it.

Where are your pictures?

[praha99]

Praha ur a perty man, im proud to be your friend.

Did those pics show up for you.. I couldn`t get them to work..

pic below.. don`t work for me



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...erTruckBox.jpg

[Some Dude]

I don't take pictures of A/C jobs but will post some of my comercial job when the units are installed.

If this guy was proud of that job, I would hate to see his mediocre jobs.

I am not a liberal, but you sound like one, are you in a Union?

If you think that was a good install, that is great, but it has a lot of issues with it, one reason could be because Illinois has lax licensing laws, no permit or inspections was required for that job.

So you dont or you do take pictures? Which one is it walley, here you plainly state you DO NOT take pictures, now your going to post some?

[bwalley]

So you dont or you do take pictures? Which one is it walley, here you plainly state you DO NOT take pictures, now your going to post some?

I thought you were ignoring me.

I will be at a commercial job tommorow that I have done some work on, it is less than 1/2 a mile away from a current commercial job I am doing, I have my camera in the truck and I will take some pictures for you.

I do more than just A/C and pictures of a RTU or some split systems are not what I show clients, I show them pictures of buildings I have done, elevation changes, room additions, Kitchens, pool remodels, houses, etc., when a client calls me about an A/C system, they don't want to see a picture, they want the job done right and wouldn't know what it looked like anyway.



Where are your pictures?

[ga-hvac-tech]

The problem with just following building code is, it is the minimum standard.

The reason states that require competency testing, building codes and inspections is because it raises standards, it does not lower standards.

Hmmm, the point I was making seems to have been missed. I understand fully what you are saying, but I think there is another view to consider.

Anyone can follow the rules, and many can follow the rules to the 'T'... I have done jobs that were literally EXACTLY to code in literally every aspect. But is doing the job to the 'T' the goal, or is meeting the customer's needs the goal?

My point is that when there are no rules the customer has to take a pro-active interest in how their money is spent. In other words, either they take an interest, or get taken. It is always in the best interest for the customer to be involved, it is a win-win for everyone.

When the government sets minimum standards, those are the standards. But if I as the consumer have to get involved to understand what I am buying, I can set standards at whatever level I want to.

As I said in my previous post: The folks that think the government standards are good enough... they just price shop--thinking everyone is the same... and we know that when a person takes the low bid, they get what they pay for (or they get taken by a slick sales guy and still get the equivalent of the low bid).

Not having the illusion that the government will protect and take care of you; makes the public responsible for themselves.

[Some Dude]

Hmmm, the point I was making seems to have been missed. I understand fully what you are saying, but I think there is another view to consider.

Anyone can follow the rules, and many can follow the rules to the 'T'... I have done jobs that were literally EXACTLY to code in literally every aspect. But is doing the job to the 'T' the goal, or is meeting the customer's needs the goal?

My point is that when there are no rules the customer has to take a pro-active interest in how their money is spent. In other words, either they take an interest, or get taken. It is always in the best interest for the customer to be involved, it is a win-win for everyone.

When the government sets minimum standards, those are the standards. But if I as the consumer have to get involved to understand what I am buying, I can set standards at whatever level I want to.

As I said in my previous post: The folks that think the government standards are good enough... they just price shop--thinking everyone is the same... and we know that when a person takes the low bid, they get what they pay for (or they get taken by a slick sales guy and still get the equivalent of the low bid).

Not having the illusion that the government will protect and take care of you; makes the public responsible for themselves.

Well said, i do not go to work for the state, or any other form of government. I go to work for me,my work is a reflection of me. Having a degree, local or state, license, journeyman card etc. Has nothing to do with what type of mechanic you are.
Those that shout about their piece of paper probably do very poor work. Keep in mind the people doing these jobs are for the most part the employees not the owners, and the employees do not carry the license the owner does.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Well said, i do not go to work for the state, or any other form of government. I go to work for me,my work is a reflection of me. Having a degree, local or state, license, journeyman card etc. Has nothing to do with what type of mechanic you are.
Those that shout about their piece of paper probably do very poor work. Keep in mind the people doing these jobs are for the most part the employees not the owners, and the employees do not carry the license the owner does.

Well said! Quality is an attitude and mindset, not a license.

And just to throw another can of gas on the fire... If the trade cannot do quality without Big Brother looking over their shoulder; well that does not say much for the trade...

Wise consumers can find a quality minded person to do their work. Folks that have not learned that talent WILL if the nanny government will just get out of the way.

[Some Dude]

I ask for constrictive criticism ion a regular basis, it can only improve me , even if the one giving it is in error. AT LEAST YOU KNOW WHO NOT TO LISTEN TO.

If PRA want to go up on a roof in tennis shoes to take pics so be it.
Im also sure that the soft solder joints were staybrite #8 a totally acceptable way to install refrigerant lines.
What i disagree with is the way one person in particular continually bashed him in a vain effort to make themselves look good.
99% of the people on this site will help you if you need it, many times without you ever asking.
I value almost everyones input but to continually bash a persons work or second guess them in an open public forum is distasteful and imo shows a utter lack of character.
Hopefully this is now finished, i dont think prah deserved what he got.
peace

[bwalley]

Well said! Quality is an attitude and mindset, not a license.

And just to throw another can of gas on the fire... If the trade cannot do quality without Big Brother looking over their shoulder; well that does not say much for the trade...

Wise consumers can find a quality minded person to do their work. Folks that have not learned that talent WILL if the nanny government will just get out of the way.

The problem with no inspections and lack of licensing ends up having contractors doing the job to even lower standards then if there was even the minimal oversight.

The contractor here didn't even realize the job he was working on was considered a commercial job and that tennis shoes were not allowed on commercial jobs, he also mounted disconnects on the service panels of the condensing units.

Some people meet or exceed the code, others don't even have to worry about it because no one checks on their work.

The governments job is to protect the health and well being of the public, one way that is accomplished is through licensing of contractors and having minimum building code requirements, one reason why the United States doesn't have building and bridges collapsing on a regular basis like in other countries is because of building codes and the enforcement of them.

Here are a couple of RTU, we had to cut the roof to install the curbs.

raeely not worth posting but since you guys asked, I will post pictures of some of my other work.