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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    2,432
    Quote Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
    Why do equipment manufacturers have minimum distances between condensing units if it doesn't affect performance?

    Units that close will definately affect performance and could shorten the equipment life, but the contractor has already cashed the check and will not have to deal with it, so all is good, right??
    The distances are somewhat arbitrary, and assume a perfect world. With the amount of air a condensing unit moves, I dont see the flow through the units being affected in the pictures I saw. Maybe you have some experience with units installed in that manner not performing properly?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Plant City, Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtime View Post
    The distances are somewhat arbitrary, and assume a perfect world. With the amount of air a condensing unit moves, I dont see the flow through the units being affected in the pictures I saw. Maybe you have some experience with units installed in that manner not performing properly?
    I guess the manufacturer's have no idea what they are talking about when they give minimum clearances, those engineers they pay must waste a bunch of time figuring this stuff out.

    Just because the equipment is cooling or heating, does not mean it is working the way it was designed.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Here. I'm right here i tell you!
    Posts
    465
    the difference between right and wrong is the price of a permit. If you dont get it inspected and something goes wring. Anything that makes you 100 percent liable. It cracks me up seeing guys install furnaces with no permit. Good chance for a lawsuit. DIRTFT thats my motto. And yes I checked. He would have been red tagged on the electrical. Put the disconnect's on a stand next to the penetration and then use the sealtight to the unit. That would eleminate the free hanging J box. Other than that it looks great.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South
    Posts
    89
    I wish all contactors had the mentality of bwalley, I respect and applaud your way of thinking!! keep it that way.
    What's another word for Thesaurus?
    - Steven Wright

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South
    Posts
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtime View Post
    The distances are somewhat arbitrary, and assume a perfect world. With the amount of air a condensing unit moves, I dont see the flow through the units being affected in the pictures I saw. Maybe you have some experience with units installed in that manner not performing properly?

    What a bunch of crap, not having the proper clearance could cause a premature failure or shorten the life expectancy of these units and yes I have seen many units nor performing well due to people thinking the distance between units or between unit-walls is "somewhat arbitrary".

    I hope the guys who ask questions about how good a brand is it read this thread because it will help them understand the importance of a good or not so good contractor and how they can affect the perception of a brand by reducing or creating operational problems just by how was installed and not the quality of the product.
    What's another word for Thesaurus?
    - Steven Wright

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    2,432
    Quote Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
    I guess the manufacturer's have no idea what they are talking about when they give minimum clearances, those engineers they pay must waste a bunch of time figuring this stuff out.

    Just because the equipment is cooling or heating, does not mean it is working the way it was designed.
    American Standard recomends 12" clearance. I am installing one in a few weeks, and I am going to hold a piece of plywood 6" away from one side of the cond unit with gages attached. Maybe Im a dumbazz, but I dont think the pressures will change at all. What do you suppose I will see on the gages?

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Plant City, Florida
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    2,198
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtime View Post
    American Standard recomends 12" clearance. I am installing one in a few weeks, and I am going to hold a piece of plywood 6" away from one side of the cond unit with gages attached. Maybe Im a dumbazz, but I dont think the pressures will change at all. What do you suppose I will see on the gages?
    Take 35% of the oil out of the condensing unit and put your guages on it and see if the pressures change, they probably won't but there will be long term consequences.

    Look at the pictures again, most of the units have restrictions on 2 sides, not just one, and using plywood will not replicate the same situation where you have 2 condensing units on either side of another condensing unit and all 3 are running at the same time.

    The guy did sloppy work, in the second picture it looked like a plumber sweated the suction lines with soft solder, the linesets are not supported, and run in a sloppy manner, the electrical is hacked, he used a j box to extend a seal tite line and did not support the box, the disconnects are attached to the service panels of the equipment, I didn't see any ground wire in the circuits feeding the disconnects in post #3, then you have OSHA violations of wearing tennis shoes on a commercial job.

    BTW I notice the guy who made the original post hasn't tried to defend his work much.

    This is the type of work you get when a state has lax licensing laws, I wonder if the job was even permitted and inspected.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,431
    when they have good licensing laws you see bad stuff.

    I hope buildings owners get wise to the idea that you should put those units on stands. not too foresighted to cover up parts of the roof and have to move a condensor to access that spot.

    if the roof goes bad you can run the new roofing under stand, w/o cutting equipment loose. I like to help out whoever comes along behind me, but sometimes owners won't cooperate.

    kudos to putting up with that mob of people.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,432
    Quote Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
    Take 35% of the oil out of the condensing unit and put your guages on it and see if the pressures change, they probably won't but there will be long term consequences.

    Look at the pictures again, most of the units have restrictions on 2 sides, not just one, and using plywood will not replicate the same situation where you have 2 condensing units on either side of another condensing unit and all 3 are running at the same time.

    The guy did sloppy work, in the second picture it looked like a plumber sweated the suction lines with soft solder, the linesets are not supported, and run in a sloppy manner, the electrical is hacked, he used a j box to extend a seal tite line and did not support the box, the disconnects are attached to the service panels of the equipment, I didn't see any ground wire in the circuits feeding the disconnects in post #3, then you have OSHA violations of wearing tennis shoes on a commercial job.

    BTW I notice the guy who made the original post hasn't tried to defend his work much.

    This is the type of work you get when a state has lax licensing laws, I wonder if the job was even permitted and inspected.
    Tell me what you think the pressures will do when I put the plywood 6" from the cond unit. Im looking for a clue that you know the ref cycle.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    690
    Holy Crap bwalley you really gotta let it go man... you remind of those retired Engineers that I love so much.
    In a perfect world I would have had all summer to rerun all electric make the pads larger, etc etc. and all the money to do so.
    In the REAL world I had a budget, had to keep to a VERY fast schedule and in horrible conditions, could have done it better, you bet.. with the same budget and time restraints.. NO WAY
    I`m proud of the work, roofer and association is very happy with the huge improvement.
    Your knitpicking about what shoes I wear ..lol get a life man.
    FYI, in Illinois there are no inspectors.. no permits for this job.
    Sorry - yesterday was the deadline for all complaints.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    690
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtime View Post
    Tell me what you think the pressures will do when I put the plywood 6" from the cond unit. Im looking for a clue that you know the ref cycle.
    Useless arguing with this guy.. if it`s not 100% as the manufacturer recommends then it`s WRONG.. don`t use common sense just do what the manufacturer says..
    Sorry - yesterday was the deadline for all complaints.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Plant City, Florida
    Posts
    2,198
    Quote Originally Posted by praha99 View Post
    Holy Crap bwalley you really gotta let it go man... you remind of those retired Engineers that I love so much.
    In a perfect world I would have had all summer to rerun all electric make the pads larger, etc etc. and all the money to do so.
    In the REAL world I had a budget, had to keep to a VERY fast schedule and in horrible conditions, could have done it better, you bet.. with the same budget and time restraints.. NO WAY
    I`m proud of the work, roofer and association is very happy with the huge improvement.
    Your knitpicking about what shoes I wear ..lol get a life man.
    FYI, in Illinois there are no inspectors.. no permits for this job.
    That explains a lot.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    690
    Quote Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
    The guy did sloppy work, in the second picture it looked like a plumber sweated the suction lines with soft solder.
    With someone who pay so much attention to details as you, you really need to learn how to read.. those pics you are referring to are all BEFORE pictures.
    We cut out all those sweated connections
    Sorry - yesterday was the deadline for all complaints.

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