Well the thread I was posting was closed but I had to say this to continue the union-non union debate, although I dont like it I hope to bring guys to realize a few things that may make them realize some things:

Oh I almost forgot, I was a business owner and my choice to go union or non-union was based solely on whether I wanted to make 25 percent profit or 40 percent. Non-union companies charge the same hourly rate, and don't try and BS me on this or try and argue. I belonged to all of the service groups across the US, went to all of the conventions and talked to union and non-union owners. When you get drunk and smoke $100 cigars together in the Hilton the truth comes out. They want average techs becuase the more they pay for them, the less they make. I had a guy, who I became friends with in CA told me a a convention once, the dumber they are, the more money I make. And on your GM and Chrysler quote, I didnt see too many of the big 3 car maker executive's struggling to pay bills because of the Unions. I guess if it is a shame to work in a factory and be middle class, your right they should make 30K a year and struggle. Damn this BS has me pissed off, per my previous post....This is all political Joe the retard plumber crap fed to us by media that somehow the Unions are killing everything. WAKE UP! We are ALL losing here. Unions didn't force these factories out of business, its just that the big 3 couldn't up and move to China without American having a **** fit. What killed this country is we have become a locust society. We dont make anything. Why is it in the 50's a factory worker could have his wife stay home, own a house a car, go on vacations and retire with some money to live on? Now what do we have??? Corporate greed and politics allowed companies to move and we still buy all of the stuff for what? So we can say, they don't make like they used to! I mean Lego's for my kid are frekin 30 dollars. They are the same as they were when I was a kid only 10 times as much and I can let my kid play with em because if he lick's them the lead paint from China will kill em! So again Union haters, if all the unions were gone then what, mysteriously the economy would bounce back and we would have this super working nation of non-slackers, allowing corporations to make money again and prosper.