ReplyThe XR14 is not a 2 stage compressor so watch out.
Regular Guest
I was just talking to my contractor / installer about a Trane XL16i, and he came back with some numbers on a Trane XR14 coupled to an Aspen coil. I'm not sure of the model of coil, but he said that the efficiency numbers on it and the furnace were enough to make the entire system qualify for the tax credit.
He's a friend that is trying to put together something for me that will be efficient and not break the bank, but I'm wondering... Is it worth it to save a few bucks (not really that much in the scheme of things) to cobble something together, or is it best to get the entire Trane system from soup to nuts. I've seen the term Frankensystem a few times and am wondering how bad it is to mix brands.
Being in Houston with a 2 story house, we're getting 2 complete systems replaced. As we use the A/C 10 or 11 months of the year, with many of those months being mild temp (except for the hottest part of the summer), am I correct in my thinking that a 2 stage compressor would definitely be worth the money? Maybe not as much savings during the middle of the summer when it has to run full-bore, but in the other 6 months of of a/c weather there would be some savings?
Any thoughts?
Regular Guest
The XR14 is not a 2 stage compressor so watch out.
Regular Member
Have a 4-ton dual fuel HP going in next week. Without the Aspen coil there was no manufacturer configuration that met the tax credit criteria and this a very high end system. Note that larger capacity systems seem to have a tougher time meeting the criteria. Ask him for the AHRI certification # and check it on the AHRI directory search or have the guys here do it. Warning: since I signed my proposal in early June, AHRI has "rerated" my HP/coil/furnace combo and reduced the HSPF for the HP but it still passes the criteria.
Also, note that with the Aspen coil, Aspen and not the HP/furnace manufacturer provides the tax credit certificate which they did in a couple of days after my distributor requested it.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
In August, the rating system will change. And that Aspen coil may not meet the tax requirements anymore.
Third party coils are not tested, they are done by computer simulation. So its doubtfull you really get the efficiency rating they say it has.
Which is probably why the rating system is changing.
Regular Member
BT, I was told by distributor and Aspen it would be July 15. However, this week AHRI rerated a number of York/Aspen combo's by reducing the HSPF on them. In my case HSPF went from 10.15 to 8.95.Originally Posted by beenthere
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Your probably correct.
I don't use third party unless there is no other way to fix a coil in a tight area.
Regular Guest
Yes, I took note that it was not dual stage. Am I correct im my thinking that with the dual stage, the times when only the first stage is required will be the times that the real energy savings are seen, with the 2nd stage kicking in when it gets really warm outside.
If you're spending serious coin to begin with, are you getting equipment on the brink of being obsolete with a single stage compressor? Should a consumer that is planning to live with the equipment for a while take nothing less than a dual stage compressor system?
Keep the information coming on Aspen (or any other 3rd party mfg) versus a complete system with one brand.
Banned
Read more about Mix-Match Coils here;
http://www.ahrinet.org/Pages/ShowMeM...ingle&lpk=1003
May be an issue with the Tax credit,date installed,etc.,beware.
Regular Guest
I am a homeowner in the Houston area too. One thing you want to watch out for, is the temptation to size the XL16i larger "because it's a 2-stage". I do think all the Houston area contractors tend to size big unless you press them to do closer to the Manual J sizing. On the other hand, the XL16i is mostly only available in 1-ton increments, while the XL14i is available in more sizes. I would *not* consider the XL14i, the XL15i, or other 1-stage AC obsolete.
I have the 19i and was able to downsize from 3.5 to 3.0 ton, making the duct system less stressed and still it runs quite a lot on the 1st stage. For that model 1st stage is about 55% of 2nd stage, for the XL16i will be 65-70%. Something to watch out for: when I looked at the latent capacity of the XL16i recently it seemed low compared to some other models. You might do well to investigate the latent capacity of each of the systems you consider, in order not to compromise your indoor humidity.
Best of luck -- Pstu
Regular Member
Thanks, Dash. Very interesting. Well, BT, guess York won't be selling many Affinity 18 SEER dual fuel HP's because their web site lists absolutely no furnaces and coils that meet the tax credit.
But then Aspen has already supplied me with my tax credit certificate so I am not too worried. Maybe a bit p....d.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
They have a lot of 8T that qualify.
Just not in your size.
Time to go on a diet. LOL
Regular Member
If no 4 and 5-ton units in their top of the line qualify is that a good place to be, good for them?They have a lot of 8T that qualify.
Just not in your size.
Time to go on a diet. LOL
But my daughter just told me that I look like I did lose some weight. You don't think so????
Professional Member*
At this point in the game and with the rash of coils leaking at the 3-5 year mark by all manufacturers in my area and you are only about 3 hours away from me. I wouldn't even consider putting in an evaporator coil that is not tin or tin plated. Trane and Carrier have those. Maybe it's just the area, but any copper coils are going to leak. They may or may not be under warranty when they fail, but most will have to pay for labor and materials. If you are going to purchase a copper coil, I would get the extended labor and parts warranty through the manufacturer, not a 3rd party or by the installing company. The reason is that as we have seen over the last year, no company is immune to failure at this point, even the big guys. But the chances are less they will than an installing company or pop-up 3rd party warranty company.
I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
LOL... Your typing might be a little thinner.
The 4 ton, does have qualifying units, with air handlers, just not furnaces.
Regular Guest
I've currently got 2400 square feet, roughly the same upstairs and downstairs. Have a 2.5 ton A/C and 3 ton coil for the upstairs unit and a 3 ton a/c with 3 ton coil for the downstairs unit. (York units with Allstyle coils installed by your buddies at Big Tex A/C for Pulte Homes).
Apparently I should take a pic of the installation for the "wall of shame" section, The plenum is the all-in-one deal with 2 ducts cut in each side and another one cut directly into the end. The result is all of the air shoots right down that middle duct and not much gets to the other ducts. Homeowners don't know this is incorrect, and 10 years and many service calls by other techs later the guy that is going to replace my units pointed out the shoddy installation to me. I figured it was shoddy a couple of years ago when I had an upstairs ceiling leaking and I went up to fund the drain pan had water in it and the drain line was run up to the pan but never connected, so the water was just running out into the attic insulation and out the ceiling.
No idea why they installed this particular size as it would seem that the load on the upstairs unit would be at least as great as the downstairs unit since all the heat rises and square footage is basically the same.
They are looking at replacing both with 3 ton units. That should be adequate without oversizing.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Does the current 2.5 ton for the upstair handle the load ok.
Professional Member*
We've got Big Tex here as well. I think they used to have something to do with ownership of the Allstyle coils as well as Texas Furnaces. I will not say anything negative about them, other than I can always tell a Big Tex job. I was actually having a discussion with a customer today about them.
I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.
Regular Guest
no, on hot days with the thermostat set on 74 we are doing good to maintain 76-77 degrees. I had Efficient Attic Systems install a radiant barrier and install 4 air hawks (to supplement my ridge vents). That brought a noticable drop in attic temps (just going on feeling). Before that, the unit struggled to maintain 78-79 on hot days.
Professional Member*
Honestly with the weather we've been having in Texas. And you keeping your house at 76ish with 100+ days, you're probably sized about right. A 3 ton probably won't hurt you much and will get you over the hump, probably get it down to low 70's. If you don't want your house that cold, stay with the 2.5 ton. Just make sure your ductwork is ok and sized right even for the 2.5 ton no matter what you decide on. I'm sure the ductwork looks like an octopuss had babies in your attic.
I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.
Regular Guest
You've been to my house?
I think the sizing should be ok (I hope?). The measurements supposedly put us right on the edge between 2.5 and 3 ton. I just HATE not being able to cool to a comfortable temperature for an afternoon nap with the damn thing running all day (on weekends it has run up to 17 hours in 24 hour period while not keeping up). I don't want the problems of oversizing, but don't want to spend this kind of money and have a similar problem. My guy explained to me that going too large would cool the air too fast, but the carpet, furniture, etc wouldn't rach the temp, and when the system shut off the otehr stuff would warm the air back up causing it to cycle again. Basically would leave me with short, frequent run times and inadequate humidity control.
They don't expect any problems from just bumping up to the 3 ton, but said it would be a mistake to go larger.
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