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Thread: R-410A LEAK

  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    4,067
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    For all we know, his usual detector has failed, and he needs to borrow a temporary unit. Let's not hang the guy without a trial...

    I didn't "hang" anyone. I said I would be concerned.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Anoka, Minnesota
    Posts
    26
    We suggest after that to isolate the indoor coil and lines by pumping down the system and closing off the outdoor units valves. Then pull the lines and indoor coil to 400 micron vacume and hold. If it doesn't rise then that part of the system is tight and concentrate on the outdoor coil and piping. Don't forget to have them leak check the compressor plug area. They can leak at times also. Good luck.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mid Michigan
    Posts
    319
    Useing a vacuum to help you decide where your leak maybe is a non starter

    for me. Dirty vacuum pump oil or instrument not working properly can

    mislead you. I would rather use nitogen to find the leak.

    Instead of the chance of introducing more air to your closed system.
    Waddya mean don't thaw out the frig with a knive?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by xraymarc View Post
    Model is ssx160361ab
    serial 0704031396
    does this apply to service bulletin sc0009
    Yes, your unit is one that MAY contain the faulty part. Goodman says that some of the service valves contained out of spec o-rings. This results in a leak during very low outdoor temperatures. It doesn't matter what method your contractor uses to check for leaks, they won't find it on the affected valves unless they're checking it when it's very cold outside. There is a kit to remedy the problem (SVCK01), it's easily installed. If your system has been low on R410A only after the winter but does fine through the summer it's likely you have a valve that needs the repair kit.

    Benjamin

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Anoka, Minnesota
    Posts
    26
    I agree with using nitrogen with a refrigerant tracer to pinpoint the leak when needed but many systems are not flat when you arrive. With the price of refrigerant, it makes sense to preserve whats left and use other processes first.
    I'm mearly suggesting when the leak is not showing up with bubbles or sniffers, this way you can save time and frustration by trying to determine which component to concentrate on. Dirty pump oil shouldn't even be an issue and miscalibrated instruments would only come into play for those who neglect thier equipment and not practice professionalism in their trade. Number one rule is saftey first, then having the proper tools for the job. Pump oil is cheap. We wouldn't run our cars with filthy oil so why not do the same for the pump to insure good vacumes. Promote best practices for our industry and the young techs coming up.
    A large portion of my job is to train and provide technical support for over 900 contractors in 3 states. I have been on job sites with many contractors who have spent years "topping off" systems that they have failed to find leaks on, wasting time and customers money. I find poor practices, neglected instruments and laziness. Taking a systematic, comprehensive approach to leak detection, I am able to locate nearly 100% of these failures. There are times when we've had to pump up coils to over 350 pounds of pressure in order to find finpack leaks most likly from formicary corrosion or tubing seam leaks. Most tubing in condencer coils start out as flat sheets they are then crosshatched for heat pumps and riffled for A/C units. Then the flat sheet is rolled and electronically welded when manufactured. If contaminants are present during this process, weak points can show up and cause leaks. They are very difficult to locate with normal operating pressures. Fromicary corrosion put simply, is a chemical reaction that eats away the copper from the outside inward. Kind of an "ants nest" corrosion and is found industry wide. Some areas are hit harder than others but it's been found nation wide.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    71
    An electronic leak detector should be a must have tool for every service tech. I would also use a nitrogen/refrigerant mix to 300 psig. It sometimes takes time to repair leaks and driers and do proper evacuation procedures. When the call book is overloaded alot of mechanics take the quick route.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    newton,mass.
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    6,109
    Quote Originally Posted by DLR View Post
    An electronic leak detector should be a must have tool for every service tech. I would also use a nitrogen/refrigerant mix to 300 psig. It sometimes takes time to repair leaks and driers and do proper evacuation procedures. When the call book is overloaded alot of mechanics take the quick route.


    300 PSI is to high, not good for the txv and other components. You should be able to find most leaks with 100 PSI maybe a little more for those tough to find ones but 300 PSI is to much. In my humble opinion ...


    .
    "Nothing else can poison our culture, corrupt our society or ruin the character of our people like unearned money or unearned opportunity." -- James R. Cook

    "Fooling around with alternating current is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever." Thomas Edison, 1889.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,921
    Quote Originally Posted by xraymarc View Post
    My contractor installed a rheem modulating furnance with a goodman compressor. He also used a goodman A coil. The year after the system was low on refrigerant and he evacuated and charged it up. This year there was no r-410a in the system at all. He charged the system to 100 pounds to try to find the leak. He used soapy bubbles to try to find the leak everywhere including the connections at the a coil. Tomorrow he will be coming back with an electronic leak detector. Any suggestions to find the leak. I do not feel like getting another contractor. Thanks

    Twilli says no self repecting Rheem dealer would ever do that. Thats like ordering lobster and boone's farm wine.
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    19

    Sounds Like I have the Same Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by hypocycloid View Post
    Yes, your unit is one that MAY contain the faulty part. Goodman says that some of the service valves contained out of spec o-rings. This results in a leak during very low outdoor temperatures. It doesn't matter what method your contractor uses to check for leaks, they won't find it on the affected valves unless they're checking it when it's very cold outside. There is a kit to remedy the problem (SVCK01), it's easily installed. If your system has been low on R410A only after the winter but does fine through the summer it's likely you have a valve that needs the repair kit.

    Benjamin
    I called Goodman today and they gave me the general consumer people. They will only let contractors speak to technical support. I asked them if the service bulletin applied to my condenser, she came back with a no, but then again, she had no clue what I was talking about. The contractor came back today and charged the suction side with nitrogen to more than 300psi. He said he does this at his job to find leaks and you can usually find them with bubbles or hear the hissing sound. he checked every component and heard nothing. He even took apart the compressor. I am beginning to think he might be right because I only lose refrigerent over the winter. This winder we had a week of temps at 4 deg (F). Maybe that is why I lost all my r410a. I am going to have him call goodman. Is it hard to replace part in service kit? I love this forum---you guys have always inspired me and I like to take a second to thank you.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by xraymarc View Post
    I am going to have him call goodman. Is it hard to replace part in service kit? I love this forum---you guys have always inspired me and I like to take a second to thank you.
    Not hard at all.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    19
    the valvues are the high and low side service ports where you hook up the hoses. Two years ago he suspected that it might be that but no leak detecked by bubbles etc.

  12. #25

    NEW CONTRACTOR!!!!!!!

    I KNOW YOU SAID YOU DONT WANT TO CHANGE CONTRACTORS BUT IF YOUR GUY FRANKINSTINED A SYSTEM TOGATHER LIKE THAT HE IS THE LAST PERSON YOU NEED WORKING ON IT AND THEN HE TELLS YOU HE HAS TO GO GET A ELECTRONIC LEAK DETECTOR SOUNDS LIKE JOHNNY JACK LEG WORKING OUT OF HIS MOTHERS BASEMENT. THE GOOD THING ABOUT THIS SITUATION IS YOU GOT A VERY GOOD FURNACE BUT COMPLETE PIECE FOR A AIR CONDITIONER I WOULD FIRE YOUR CONTRACTOR ASAP GET A REAL HVAC MAN AND GET THE PROBLEM FIXED

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    newton,mass.
    Posts
    6,109
    Quote Originally Posted by slay_24 View Post
    I KNOW YOU SAID YOU DONT WANT TO CHANGE CONTRACTORS BUT IF YOUR GUY FRANKINSTINED A SYSTEM TOGATHER LIKE THAT HE IS THE LAST PERSON YOU NEED WORKING ON IT AND THEN HE TELLS YOU HE HAS TO GO GET A ELECTRONIC LEAK DETECTOR SOUNDS LIKE JOHNNY JACK LEG WORKING OUT OF HIS MOTHERS BASEMENT. THE GOOD THING ABOUT THIS SITUATION IS YOU GOT A VERY GOOD FURNACE BUT COMPLETE PIECE FOR A AIR CONDITIONER I WOULD FIRE YOUR CONTRACTOR ASAP GET A REAL HVAC MAN AND GET THE PROBLEM FIXED

    Hey xraymarc,

    This poster is writing from his mom's basement, he has to be, first post and no profile and he's judging your contractor. Your contractor could be just fine or not, we do not know. You seem OK at the moment with him so I think you should hang in there a while with him ... he did come back after all. There have been some good post here to help you ... listen to them.

    Maybe this poster is an imposter and knows you or your contractor just saying.



    .
    "Nothing else can poison our culture, corrupt our society or ruin the character of our people like unearned money or unearned opportunity." -- James R. Cook

    "Fooling around with alternating current is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever." Thomas Edison, 1889.

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