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  1. #40
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    after reading this thread i have become convinced it would have been more pleasurable to read the cap and trade bill. the one thing i am certain of: it won't be a bunch of eggheads exercising their mental muscles about efficiency,building envelopes,tossing politicians out etc. that will bring our future energy plan into being, it WILL be the free market. without the free market you would be writing your rants with a quill and home made ink. it will always come through if you allow it. government is for delivering mail, printing money and defending us from foriegn and domestic enemies.
    "When the people find they can vote themselves money,that will herald the end of the republic" - Benjamin Franklin

    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force;like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action"- George Washington

  2. #41
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by smittyii View Post
    after reading this thread i have become convinced it would have been more pleasurable to read the cap and trade bill. the one thing i am certain of: it won't be a bunch of eggheads exercising their mental muscles about efficiency,building envelopes,tossing politicians out etc. that will bring our future energy plan into being, it WILL be the free market. without the free market you would be writing your rants with a quill and home made ink. it will always come through if you allow it. government is for delivering mail, printing money and defending us from foriegn and domestic enemies.
    The adminstration is not a fan of the free market; they would rather dictate what/how is to be done.

    Amp

  3. #42
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanW13 View Post
    Accordingly the POTUS has given the go ahead to build 7 or 8 more Nuclear power plants, but when there going to be online is yet to be determined but hopefully it will be within 5-6yrs where it will be needed since the Gov't is hoping to shut the coal industry down so there's going to be a need to replace that energy that will be lost form the coal power plants, but there has been alot of Coal power plants being converted over to NG slowly but surely.

    Those CFB conversions are more likely due to older "grandfathered" boiler designs that didn't meet emmissions standards and had to either add additonal emmission controls or invest in converting to gas fire. Unfortunately the price per BTU or natural gas is a lot higher coal. I'm curious what the efficincy of a converted CFB is compared to a combined cycle boiler???

    I know I'd be happy if they built a nuclear plant just north of our city. I think much of the rural Midwest would be happy to have the jobs and tax revenues. There's plenty of land, along with adequate water supplies from large rivers. Especially in the rust belt. Maybe the northern states like MI, OH, IN can reinvent themselves and the major energy producers of the US.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampulman View Post
    The adminstration is not a fan of the free market; they would rather dictate what/how is to be done.

    Amp

    On the opposite end... previous conservative adminstrations were a little to happy to deregulate, which had a lot to do with the current crisis, along with dissolving much of the middle class and concetrating wealth upward.

    We need a middle ground.

  5. #44
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    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". - Thomas Jefferson

  6. #45
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    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    Do you have good numbers for the power losses on the grid in transmission form the generator to you home?
    Grid losses are about 7%-8% system wide (i.e. 92%-93% efficiency). Specific losses involved with delivering power to an individual building will vary quite dramatically depending on geography, equipment used, and the topology of the electric grid.

  7. #46
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    SW Wisconsin
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    This topic is important to all of us, because if America's & the global economy goes down, so will our HVAC industry suffer horrendous losses.

    It is easy for us to yell & condemn govt, but we soon forget that free market corrupt capitalism failed us totally & completely.

    Whether govt, even if they could apply ingenious policies, could get the economy back on its feet is, at this point, a questionable unknown.

    Free market capitalism would have to go through a thorough purifying process for it to ever work properly. Without adequate, but not excessive, regulation it will never achieve its potential.

    This time, the economy has gone way past the point where merely cutting taxes & other Supply-Side gimmicks, will work. Business & industry will simply take those tax cuts & invest in the cheapest production country they can find.

    I condemn our elected representatives & the media during the preceding eight years when they were not watching & reporting what was happening in finance & in our economy.

    When we are programmed to Blindly believe that we have the best economic system in the world we have a recipe for a Multiple-Trillions of dollars disaster.

    Our mass media is doing nothing to properly inform, educate & instruct the people regarding what each one of us can do to help keep our economic ship from sinking, because it's taking on water, & govt alone can't save it from sinking. - Darrell
    Last edited by udarrell; 07-09-2009 at 08:33 PM. Reason: edited for meaning...

  8. #47
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    We have Mr. Frank to blame for the housing debacle, whom is trying his hand at the very same thing except this time he wants to try it with the Condominium Association, " I wonder what that out come is going to be"

    The financial crisis wasn't due to lack of Regulation, or too much regulation but was due to there was no oversight at all from our Gov't and no one enforcing the regulation that were in place, This can be blamed on both parties !!

    I voted for both Bush 41 & 43 but when they did wrong or failed to act I also blamed them just the same as I am blaming the POTUS currently in charge.

    Capitalism works so long as it is regulated properly and we have people in charge who will do there jobs as they were hired to do, not like with our Federal Inspectors who were doing there job's only to be fired by the POTUS because they found fraud and evidently they were suppose to look the other way ????

    This Gov't and all Gov't before fail to allow the American people and American bussiness to take care of themselves and feel they know how to spend our money better than we do who have to live by a budget on a daily basis and can not nor are we every allowed to run in a sea of RED ink but our Gov't seems to think that way and have been for decades excpet under Regan & Clinton who worked under balanced budgets and created Job's.

    This is the Obama's economy now and the Blame Bush for it will no longer be tolerated and he has had ample time to get things moving but seems to feel that doling out the Stimulus money to the states that supported him vs. all the states is a big no no on his part.

    If there's no more small business or lack of small bussiness this Economy will surely suffer and it is and will continue to suffer if that money is not shelled out alot faster then it has been, a mere 10% of this money has been spent and should have put out atleast 50% of this money if not more already but they were hoping to hold one to about 75% of this money until after the midterm election to use it to buy votes for the 2012 presidential election but he is finding out fast that there plan is not working the way they hoped.

  9. #48
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    Interesting WSJ article from before this trash bill passed the House.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124588837560750781.html
    They state: Americans should know that those Members who vote for this climate bill are voting for what is likely to be the biggest tax in American history. Even Democrats can't repeal that reality.
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  10. #49
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    Some additional analysis of the home inspection clause.
    http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=50365
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  11. #50
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    Jun 2009
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    N.C.
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    This man said it would happen. . .

    "The tumultuous populace of large cities are ever to be dreaded. Their
    indiscriminate violence prostrates for the time all public authority,
    and its consequences are sometimes extensive and terrible."
    George Washington

    "To contract new debts is not the way to pay old ones."
    George Washington


    "There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate
    upon real favors from nation to nation."
    George Washington

    "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire,
    it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    George Washington

    "The basis of our political system is the (((right of the people))) to make and to alter
    their constitutions of gevernment."
    George Washington

    Whatever happened to that . . .


    "Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce,
    oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice."
    George Washington

    And last but not least . . .

    "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair; the rest is
    in the hands of God."
    George Washington

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Feet View Post
    Grid losses are about 7%-8% system wide (i.e. 92%-93% efficiency). Specific losses involved with delivering power to an individual building will vary quite dramatically depending on geography, equipment used, and the topology of the electric grid.
    CF, please quote source(s). My impression is that it is higher. But, I can be convinced with authoritative sources.

  13. #52
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    Politics or Facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrs reb77 View Post
    Some additional analysis of the home inspection clause.
    http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=50365
    Excellent sources, Mrs. R. Looks like the cost of all sold houses will go up. Hmmm. Can't sell them now. What about new houses in inventory? Who pays to upgrade those? Peolpe in used houses will just try to add it to the sales cost. But, then, what about those areas, and there are many, where people can't even get the cost to rebuild for their house?

    For some of the others. Thought we were having a factual discussion that informs us, not a political debate.

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