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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,171
    He used a ductulator.

    But, the ductulator, doesn't know what velocity, or FR is good for your system.
    The person using it is suppose to know that.
    He used a rule of thumb, and went with a .1"FR.

    Unfortunately Thats .1" for every 100 equivalent foot. And unless he checked your whole duct system, and measured it up. He has no idea what your ducts equivalent foot is.
    Next, he should know, or find out what the ASP(available static pressure) is that your unit has.

    Your TEL (total equivalent length) could easily be over 300 foot.
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  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Round Rock
    Posts
    3,569
    You'll probably get mad, but oh well. You've got 2 or 3 posts going on here, 1 of them closed already. Nobody is telling you what you want to hear. So why do you keep bothering? You seem to have it all figured out, maybe you do? Who knows? Why don't you figure out what the problem is, call somebody out and give them detailed instructions of what you want and let them do it. Maybe the guy who came out is an idiot. Maybe not. Call a company, tell them exactly what you want from them. If they are unwilling to do it. Then call another company until you find out what you want. Chances are, you will get very few takers.
    I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    You'll probably get mad, but oh well. You've got 2 or 3 posts going on here, 1 of them closed already. Nobody is telling you what you want to hear. So why do you keep bothering? You seem to have it all figured out, maybe you do? Who knows? Why don't you figure out what the problem is, call somebody out and give them detailed instructions of what you want and let them do it. Maybe the guy who came out is an idiot. Maybe not. Call a company, tell them exactly what you want from them. If they are unwilling to do it. Then call another company until you find out what you want. Chances are, you will get very few takers.
    I'm not mad, just disappointed that there's that many companies out there with techs that don't know how to properly troubleshoot a system. From what I gather reading on here, there's a lot more to it than just checking refrigerant charge. If I get very few takers, then that's no reflection on me, it's a reflection on the industry.

    I researched HVAC because it interests me. I shouldn't have to know anything but "change your filter every 30 days", and the HVAC pro should take care of the rest when it comes to troubleshooting, designing, or installing a system. I shouldn't have to call 10 companies out and spend a zillion dollars before I find a competent tech. That seems to be the point you continue to convey to me.

    And, contrary to what you, or others may think, when the tech is here, I leave them alone, and let them do their job. When they're done, I talk with them about what they did and checked. I also ask them a couple of questions I've discussed on here.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    51
    I promised you my story, so here goes:

    I had an identical furnace to key1cc installed about a month ago. Load calcs (performed by myself because I was unwilling to shell out nearly 4 figures for someone else to do it) showed I needed nearly exactly 3.5 ton capacity, but I went with the 4-ton. I got 6 quotes, and basically found no contractor to be great. I chose what I felt was the lesser of the evils and had my system installed, doing some simple calculations and deciding some minor ductwork was in order. The installing contractor did an ok job, but one thing I did not look at closely was my return trunk/plenum.

    We got the first electric bill and it was halfway through the billing period we had the install done, so hard to tell how much we were "saving". I got curious. I tracked the usage one day and realized it was UP around 12-15% above usage for a similar period under similar circumstances a year ago. I then read a lot of key1cc's posts (thanks key, btw) and in particular your post about "Static Pressure - Filter & PD". I took a lot of information from these, and replaced my return trunk/plenum. To make a long story short, I went from an effective 16"x25"x1" filter on a 4-ton system, to a 24x24x1 filter, and my energy usage (so far) has dropped about 35-45% (from similiar conditions with the old system) on the variable speed motor in cooling.

    There's more to it, but that's generally what happened. I'm not sure if your ductwork has caused that much of a problem, but rest assured, it can make a BIG difference.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,326
    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    You'll probably get mad, but oh well. You've got 2 or 3 posts going on here, 1 of them closed already. Nobody is telling you what you want to hear. So why do you keep bothering? You seem to have it all figured out, maybe you do? Who knows? Why don't you figure out what the problem is, call somebody out and give them detailed instructions of what you want and let them do it. Maybe the guy who came out is an idiot. Maybe not. Call a company, tell them exactly what you want from them. If they are unwilling to do it. Then call another company until you find out what you want. Chances are, you will get very few takers.
    Say hallelujah brother!!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    167
    "...Tell that to the guy that was here today then."

    it's not beenthere's issue. it's your's.
    your posts sound rather abrasive for someone asking for free insight.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    Say hallelujah brother!!
    Hallelujah? Hallelujah that are so many hacks in your profession? If mine had that many hacks, I'd be ashamed.

    Honestly, I read it time and time again on this forum. Pro's saying "get another tech out to look at it." That advice helps, because they're pointing out that the tech that looked at it may not have done the best job, but the first tech wants to get paid. We all want to be paid for our work. Most home owner's don't have the money to call 2, 3 or more different techs to finally find the one that knows what they're doing. That gets expensive. If I ended up having to take my car to 3 different mechanics, paying each one, to finally get my timing belt replaced correctly by the fourth one and then paying him, I think I'd be a little ticked off.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by KyBrewer View Post
    I promised you my story, so here goes:

    I had an identical furnace to key1cc installed about a month ago. Load calcs (performed by myself because I was unwilling to shell out nearly 4 figures for someone else to do it) showed I needed nearly exactly 3.5 ton capacity, but I went with the 4-ton. I got 6 quotes, and basically found no contractor to be great. I chose what I felt was the lesser of the evils and had my system installed, doing some simple calculations and deciding some minor ductwork was in order. The installing contractor did an ok job, but one thing I did not look at closely was my return trunk/plenum.

    We got the first electric bill and it was halfway through the billing period we had the install done, so hard to tell how much we were "saving". I got curious. I tracked the usage one day and realized it was UP around 12-15% above usage for a similar period under similar circumstances a year ago. I then read a lot of key1cc's posts (thanks key, btw) and in particular your post about "Static Pressure - Filter & PD". I took a lot of information from these, and replaced my return trunk/plenum. To make a long story short, I went from an effective 16"x25"x1" filter on a 4-ton system, to a 24x24x1 filter, and my energy usage (so far) has dropped about 35-45% (from similiar conditions with the old system) on the variable speed motor in cooling.

    There's more to it, but that's generally what happened. I'm not sure if your ductwork has caused that much of a problem, but rest assured, it can make a BIG difference.
    Thanks, KyBrewer, I appreciate your response. Posts like yours are the only reason I create new threads asking the questions I do. I'm glad you were able to gather some info from my filter pressure drop thread. I got a lot of helpful replies in that one.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by fenian View Post
    "...Tell that to the guy that was here today then."

    it's not beenthere's issue. it's your's.
    your posts sound rather abrasive for someone asking for free insight.
    He said it did not show return drop size, then he says it does. Which is it? I don't have the tool/slider in front of me, so I can only go on what the tech that was out today said, and what you guys on this forum say. I understand it takes some know-how to get out of the tool what you want, now that beenthere has posted the additional info. His first post regarding it didn't help much.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,171
    Look for a comany that is NCI certified.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  11. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by skizot View Post
    Thanks, KyBrewer, I appreciate your response. Posts like yours are the only reason I create new threads asking the questions I do. I'm glad you were able to gather some info from my filter pressure drop thread. I got a lot of helpful replies in that one.
    I should qualify that my system has very short runs, both supply and return. It has probably made it easier than most others would find to solely increase my cross sectional area in ducts and reap the rewards. My main return (I have three from the plenum) is a 16" round that is literally no more than 8' long. The longest supply register is 30' from the plenum at most. All the others are closer to 15' at most.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by KyBrewer View Post
    I should qualify that my system has very short runs, both supply and return. It has probably made it easier than most others would find to solely increase my cross sectional area in ducts and reap the rewards. My main return (I have three from the plenum) is a 16" round that is literally no more than 8' long. The longest supply register is 30' from the plenum at most. All the others are closer to 15' at most.
    Also, I had to disconnect a 12" return to make room for the 16" return on one side of the plenum due to a pier under the house being in the way. So now I actually have less return area for the ducts, but a larger filter/drop and elbow that have made a huge difference.

    The math for the existing 2 return ducts works out close (about 760fpm) as I am running the furnace blower on "low" for 350cfm/ton, but I intend to add the 12" or some variation (8, 10 depending on what I can fit) back in the future to attempt to get static down a little lower.

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