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  1. #1
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    Abortion; The Undebated Question that settles the issue

    Abortion; The undebated question

    After following the abortion issue for years there seems to be a primary question that goes undebated. In fact, I have yet to hear it asked so I guess I will ask it here and we can discuss it. You see, there are many questions that are argued back and forth but none of those questions matter unless we first answer the more fundamental question. When the more fundamental question is answered then all the other questions are automatically answered by default.

    Here are some of the factors we hear debated.

    1) We must respect the choice of the mother, the woman.
    2) It is a matter of personal privacy between the woman and her doctor.
    3) What about teen pregnancy?
    4) How about pregnancy from rape or incest?
    5) It is a woman’s body, it is her business she has a right to do with her body as she decides.
    6) What about all those unwanted children?
    7) If abortion was not legal there would be back alley abortions.

    Actually, all of these questions are easily answered if we answer one simple question. What is it? What is the unborn?

    If the unborn is not a human being, no justification for abortion is necessary. However, if the unborn is a human being, no justification for abortion is adequate.

    This is the logical question to ask and answer. Let’s assume you are busy reading the newspaper and your child comes up behind you and asks; Daddy, can I kill this? --------- What is your immediate response?

    What Is It? Of course, you want to know what it is. If it is a bug you will have one answer, if the family pet then another answer, if the little girl next door well…. Then a very different answer.

    So, in my opinion all we have to do is answer that one question. Anyone up to a rational, logical philosophical discussion?
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    If the unborn is not a human being, no justification for abortion is necessary. However, if the unborn is a human being, no justification for abortion is adequate.
    The Supreme Court ruled in Roe v Wade the mother could abort up to the point the fetus becomes viable. One can then conclude the fetus isn't legally a human being until it is "viable".
    If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. – Abraham Maslow

  3. #3
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    For the true Christian this is a non issue, from a debate standpoint.
    It's a human being @ the moment of conception!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Schoen View Post
    The Supreme Court ruled in Roe v Wade the mother could abort up to the point the fetus becomes viable. One can then conclude the fetus isn't legally a human being until it is "viable".
    I did not ask what the Supreme Court or any other court ruled. I asked a very different question. Furthermore, are you making the claim that the Supreme Court is always correct? I recall a number of times when the Supreme Court changed its mind.

    Not all that many years ago the Supreme Court made the determination that black people were not fully persons and did not qualify for the same rights as white people.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBT TECH View Post
    For the true Christian this is a non issue, from a debate standpoint.
    It's a human being @ the moment of conception!
    The objective here is to determine if that is logically true or not. Simply making the claim is not the same as working/thinking/reasoning thru the process logically.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  6. #6
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    I wouldn't piss on an abortion doctor if he was on fire.

  7. #7
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    For a Christian there's no discussion. The true Christian live by God's word.

    Jeremiah 1
    Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee........

    Man's logic = fools gold

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBT TECH View Post
    For a Christian there's no discussion. The true Christian live by God's word.

    Jeremiah 1
    Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee........

    Man's logic = fools gold
    True Christians may try to live by God's word, but we all fall short.

    As a Christian I was supposed to feel bad about the late term abortion Dr. getting killed, but I was actually happy he got killed.

    What bothers me is he was an Usher in his church, I am a Baptist, and I seriously doubt an abortion Dr. would be an usher and I would not attend a church that allowed one to be a member.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
    True Christians may try to live by God's word, but we all fall short.

    As a Christian I was supposed to feel bad about the late term abortion Dr. getting killed, but I was actually happy he got killed.

    What bothers me is he was an Usher in his church, I am a Baptist, and I seriously doubt an abortion Dr. would be an usher and I would not attend a church that allowed one to be a member.
    I didn't say that any Christians were perfect.

    Maybe you should go forward concerning your ill will
    Just ribbing you a little, don't get uptight on me. Why would you think he wouldn't be an usher? BTK, was very active where he attended church.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBT TECH View Post
    I didn't say that any Christians were perfect.

    Maybe you should go forward concerning your ill will
    Just ribbing you a little, don't get uptight on me. Why would you think he wouldn't be an usher? BTK, was very active where he attended church.
    The Church knew he was a late term abortion dr., I would expect the church to have higher standards than to allow a person who murders children to be member, let alone an usher.

    I doubt the people in the church knew what BTK was doing.

  11. #11
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    If it turns out that the unborn is not a human being then it does not matter what one does with it. The fundamental question is What is the unborn?

    A second question is if the unborn turns out to be human; How ought we to act towards an innocent human being who is in the way and can't defend herself?
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    If it turns out that the unborn is not a human being then it does not matter what one does with it. The fundamental question is What is the unborn?

    A second question is if the unborn turns out to be human; How ought we to act towards an innocent human being who is in the way and can't defend herself?
    Life begins at conception and late term abortion murders children that are viable outside the womb.

    Abortion is dispicable, most abortions are used as a form of birth control.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post

    This is the logical question to ask and answer. Let’s assume you are busy reading the newspaper and your child comes up behind you and asks; Daddy, can I kill this? --------- What is your immediate response?

    What Is It? Of course, you want to know what it is. If it is a bug you will have one answer, if the family pet then another answer, if the little girl next door well…. Then a very different answer.

    So, in my opinion all we have to do is answer that one question. Anyone up to a rational, logical philosophical discussion?
    There is in my mind another question that lies beyond this one.

    When does the human being become autonomous. When does it have a right to live. Let's break this down a little.

    1. Is the act of having sex at times on par with an act of passion in man slaughter trials. In other words we readily admit that a man catching his wife in bed with another man may act out of passion in a way that he would not otherwise act. We look at a jealous rage differently than cold blooded killing in a robbery. I think we all admit that conception of a child happens at times despite ones best judgement.

    2. One can argue the unborn human has a right to live, but can one argue that a woman must allow this human to feed off of her blood stream, use her body as a host until it has become viable. Can the state mandate the child stay in your body? Couldn't the woman simply say give me a c section and take the baby gently and place it in an incubator. Well it will die if it is not viable.

    Now I am against abortion, don't get me wrong, it is a tradgedy and I would never choose it. But from a standpoint of having good laws I have this point of view that there are more questions that lie beyond accepting the fact that at conception a human life is formed, which I do. There must also be squared a fathers rights, if any, to his offspring. I suggest the posture of legislation could be that the mother is the owner of the person, and can do what she wishes including killing it, until such time as that person could live outside her womb, whatever 25 weeks or so and this would adjust as technology improves viability. This handles the fathers rights in terms of he has none until viability is reached.

    As I said I am against abortions morally and personally. But if we are to legislate moralilty well we must account correctly for the aspects of the human condition. Religous freedom fortunatley allows for anyone to not get an abortion.

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