Line only sweats when air handler door is removed?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    7

    Line only sweats when air handler door is removed?

    I had a new 4 ton Goodman heat pump installed around 18 months ago. Since, then I have the installer back 4 times. Twice for leaks, once to replace a broken reversing value and the last time to see why my systems will not reduce humidity.

    I am beginning to feel like a thorn in is side. The first three times, not my fault, obviously I have no way to control leaks or broken reversing value. I still believe my system was leaking the whole time at the reversing value and it finally broke. I am confident it came from the factory this way or was either damage during install.

    What lead me to install the new 4 ton Goodman was a bad coil in my Trane unit. I purchased the home as a foreclosure and the system worked well for a little over year. Then the coil busted and I had the outside unit installed only. I discussed this at lengthy with my current installer. I had gotten three estimates and they were all close and he was the only one that brought to my attention that my current air handler did not need to be replaced.

    The old unit was a 4 ton 10 sear unit, with a 5 ton air handler unit inside. I had a 14 sear Goodman installed and the installer told me it should work very nice and make an efficient system due to the fact a large A Coil and a variable blower on the Trane Air handler.

    Over all it seems to work OK, but my home is more humid than before. The installer came out and checked the temp drop and said it was good 16 degrees. That was about it, other than checking my filters and cleaning the A Coil. I agreed to pay him, due to the fact he seemed to feel everything was working. I am fine with that as long as he is right. I asked him to come out for no reason and used his time and resources, so I am Ok compensate him according.

    My brother came over for the Fourth of July and we were out back watching the kids jump on the trampoline. He noticed that my line was not sweating leaving my outside unit. We discussed this at length and he felt like it should be sweating with the humidity in NC in July. We went inside and checked to see if the air handler lines were sweating. While removing the air handler panel the line dropped in temp and began sweating in less than a minute. Once the panel was replaced on the air handler the line slowly became warmer and stopped sweating. The air handler is in my basement; don't know if that matters, I cool the basement but not the room the air handler is in. But it is not airtight to say the least and normally my home is at least 5 degrees cooler in the basement during the summer time.

    My brother felt like it was not getting airflow. He is an auto-mechanic not an HVAC tech, so I would like to a second opinion before embarrassing myself to call the installer back for a fifth time.

    Thanks in advance on how to handle this. I hate to pay another $ and look like a nut.
    Last edited by beenthere; 07-05-2009 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Removed price

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,631
    No prices in post, please read site rules, theank you.

    Its got air flow, or it wouldn't have swested when you removed the panel.

    Could still have a leak somewhere.
    But, with that mismatched system, no way to tell.

    You did need a new indoor coil or air handler. You paid for a 14 SEER, and may only be getting 10 SEER.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    7

    Thanks for the reply

    Sorry about the price, I thought you couldn't ask for quotes. Didn't mean to break the rules.

    I guess from your post, I shouldn't call the installer back.

    Anything I can do in the mean time to remove hummidy or I am stuck until I get a new airhandler installed?

    Any logic why the line would start to sweat when the air handler door is removed? The air is the basement acutally feels less humid and cooler than the air upstairs.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
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    11,847
    Quote Originally Posted by yellow03 View Post

    Any logic why the line would start to sweat when the air handler door is removed?
    Without being there, my first guess would be, you're not moving enough air across the coil.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    7

    Quick Correction

    My air handler is a 5 ton 13 sear, not 10 sear. I don't know if this matter are not.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Kenilworth New Jersey
    Posts
    230
    Any logic why the line would start to sweat when the air handler door is removed? The air is the basement acutally feels less humid and cooler than the air upstairs.

    When introducing cooler, less humid basement air you get cooling, but not with the warmer house air.

    I would suspect you are marginally undercharged, likely the result of the ID coil being cleaned thus increased load.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Shelby Co. Alabama
    Posts
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler View Post
    Without being there, my first guess would be, you're not moving enough air across the coil.
    Yes, it's almost impossible without seeing anything but something doesn't
    sound right......Is this a TXV or piston metering device?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,039
    The reason that it sweats when you remove the Air Handler cover is because you're letting air bypass the indoor coil which causes the coil to become progressively colder & would probably start freezing up if you left the cover off for much longer. The fact that you didn't see any frost makes me think(guess) that your unit is low on refrigerant.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    7

    Thanks

    Thanks for the reply.

    I know that the charge was checked, but I don't know what reading the installer got. I say I know he checked the charge, I saw him getting gauges out of his truck, so I guess he checked it.

    I also noticed that I have a TXV on my outside unit and on my inside acoil. Is that right or should there only be one?

    I am planning on calling him tommorow to dicuss the possiblity of a new air handler. However, he is the one who recommend leaving it, he did warn be that he had not idea how long the acoil would last. Other than that he sold me on the idea of keeping it and felt like it would make an efficent system.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    You did need a new indoor coil or air handler. You paid for a 14 SEER, and may only be getting 10 SEER.
    I doubt the equipment mismatch would cause an issue. A Trane 5 ton VS air handler would have been a valid match with anything from a 10 SEER up through an XL19i outdoor unit.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,847
    You're going about it the right way. Let him try to make things right, before you replace it.
    Could be a simple repair.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    658
    Trane to Goooooman?????

    your installer evidently doesn't know how to charge a unit with a txv. when he got his guages off the truck did you see if he grabbed a temp guage???
    maybe he used the beer can charging method. thats how most of our installers charge a unit.

    you should get around a 18+temp diff. on that unit when the charge is properly.
    You're only as good as your customer will allow you to be.........If they want junk, sell them junk, but make your junk look neat!!!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by yellow03 View Post
    I also noticed that I have a TXV on my outside unit and on my inside acoil. Is that right or should there only be one?
    Yes, normal for heat pumps.

    16 degrees TD is not bad. Should be better IMO.

    Ask him if he checked the superheat and subcooling. Also, what are your current operating pressures? These are critical when checking the charge on a system.
    Good Luck E

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