Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 40 to 52 of 138
  1. #40
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,321
    Robin again I think you are missing my point. I do not condone this killing in anyway, what I do object to is his attending a church and that church not only allowing him in but to place him in an elevated position. This wrong not as wrong as killing him but wrong never the less.

  2. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I was hoping you would have respect for others of faith to not start your anti-Christian diatribes again Marc. As a man of faith and an obvious sinner, I am just asking that you respect the beliefs of others, especially those of us who respect your beliefs.
    Robo, I probably have more respect for others than any of the other posters here.

    However, I do not understand why someone elses "faith" should be immune to logical criticism?

    I have an HVAC book called HVAC Principles and Applications Manual by Thomas E. Mull. On page 16.21 Thomas states what the fan affinity laws are for change of speed and change of diameter. He gets the change of speed laws right. He get the change in diameter laws wrong. I will post an article with illustration soon to explain why. This book does not demonstrate how the affinity laws are derived. It presents them as testament - on the back of Thomas's reputation. Well, overall he has my support for putting together a good book. But his book unfortunately, for this one failing, fails at being a reliable source of testament. I am forced to scrutinise every claim he makes in his book. Are you or anyone else going to be harmed that I fail to respect all of Thomas Mull's beliefs? I doubt it. So, why then do you get upset or concerned when I show too that the bible is neither a reliable form of testament.

    The bible is being refered to here as an expert on the matter of abortion. I'm sorry but it would be more constructive to instead refer to my book called "Do ants have arseholes?"

  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    Robin again I think you are missing my point. I do not condone this killing in anyway, what I do object to is his attending a church and that church not only allowing him in but to place him in an elevated position. This wrong not as wrong as killing him but wrong never the less.
    You do not know whether it is wrong though. You have no grounds on which to be certain it is wrong what the man was doing with his life helping others.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,941
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    Robin again I think you are missing my point. I do not condone this killing in anyway, what I do object to is his attending a church and that church not only allowing him in but to place him in an elevated position. This wrong not as wrong as killing him but wrong never the less.
    I understand that you in no way condone the murdering of this man, that would be as much against your beliefs as what Tilly has done are.

    As for the church, I have mixed emotions about that. I left the Lutheran Church I was a member of when it came to voting on whether or not homosexuals should be allowed to be members of the church. To even ask such a question seemed unfathonable to me. Yes, Old Testament standards demanded the ostracizing and even at times killing of men performing homosexual acts, but I don't see that level of judgement and execution in the New Testament.

    My stand is that as long as a sinner does not expect me or the church to accept their sin, no matter what their sin, they have a right to sit next to me in a church setting. Granted, I would most likely keep a couple of pews between myself and Jeffrey Dahmer or Charlie Manson, but you and I both know that those examples are exagerations that just would never occur.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,941
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien View Post
    Robo, I probably have more respect for others than any of the other posters here.

    However, I do not understand why someone elses "faith" should be immune to logical criticism?

    The bible is being refered to here as an expert on the matter of abortion. I'm sorry but it would be more constructive to instead refer to my book called "Do ants have arseholes?"
    Logic is a moving target Marc. I can and do logically conclude most of my spiritual beliefs. If what we refer to as God is the beginning of all physical existance, then no matter what we find at the beginning, that is logically "God".

    Logically speaking, once an egg is fertilized it becomes a living being. The killing of a living organism is obviously not a problem or else we would never rid ourselves of disease. So, the question, which I do not have a specific personal answer to, is "when" does the fetus become a spiritually invested human entity?

    For persons of faith in the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bibles are expert testimony on the subject of abortion. The obvious problem here is that the Bibles don't actually comment on abortion, but rather on when the fetus is a spiritual entity.

    What so many who deny their spiritual nature do not comprehend is that to those of faith, holy books such as the Bibles are our reality even though their teachings cannot always be supported by mortal, physical means.

    You come on here and make statements like "I can prove God does not exist". That is an absolutely absurd statement that only causes hurt and anger toward others. You can no more prove things of faith do not exist any more then others can prove they do exist. That is why it is called "faith".

    I know God exists because I have a relationship with God. I cannot prove this to you, but to myself and billions of others throughout history, God exists. I am sorry that you are limited to only what can be measured by physical means, but that is your limitation, not the limitations of existance.

    You may think of yourself as advanced, more knowledgeable because you believe what cannot be proved by current knowledge cannot exist. Well Marc, that is what others throughout history have thought and have been proven very wrong. It is quite possible that in the future we will have the ability to measure that which is spiritual. Just because we don't have true knowledge of all things now does not mean we should be dismissing what we don't understand.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,941
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien View Post
    You do not know whether it is wrong though. You have no grounds on which to be certain it is wrong what the man was doing with his life helping others.
    Lets see if we can bring this down to your level of comprehension Marc. I believe we can all agree that abortion is a medical procedure. I think we all can also agree that all medical procedures can be harmful in one way or another and should be avoided at all costs. So, with this logic, isn't it best to not put oneself into a position where a medical procedure will be neccesary and if we fail to not avoid being in this position, isn't allowing the body to do what it naturally does trump having a medical procedure done?

    Religious beliefs aside, abortions should be avoided at all costs, either by prevention or by giving birth.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Logic is a moving target Marc.

    Bibles don't actually comment on abortion, but rather on when the fetus is a spiritual entity.

    You come on here and make statements like "I can prove God does not exist". That is an absolutely absurd statement that only causes hurt and anger toward others. You can no more prove things of faith do not exist any more then others can prove they do exist. That is why it is called "faith".
    Firstly, the word logic being used here is as a representation of consistency. Whether or not there are contraries, contradictions, ambiguities, false dichotomies or items falsely identified as mutually exclusive etc. These are solid concepts of analysis. There is no moving target. Because followers of the bible are slippery and for ever reinterpreting and reinterpreting in order that by adhoc moves they can make the bible support whatever nonsense they might wish were true on the day you can say the bible is a moving target in the sense that the interpretations by its users are. But to call this logic and then say that logic is therefore also a moving target is to misleadingly change the definition of logic. So you are wrong on this point.

    So then, what the hell is a spiritual entity? That would be anybodies guess. What the hell does it even mean to be spiritual? That is a nonsense.

    I come here and make statements like "I can prove god does not exist". What are you on about? I have said so many times over, I have lost count of how many times or different ways, that the fact that I cannot prove there is no god does not constitute proof of god. I am a gnostic atheist. In my case that means that I am more than 99.9% sure that there is no god. I can't disprove that this universe was created by a big bowl of pea soup with hairy legs that stands with its left foot on our universe and its right foot on our nearest neighbouring universe. Just because I cannot disprove this it does not mean it is therefore true. I am just saying it is more likely that there is a bowl of pea soup floating between our universe and our neighbouring universe than there is a god.

    Who created the god then? Who created the god that created the god. Nothing can just come out of nothing so every god would had to have been created by some other creator. It is more logical to assume that we happened by accident than that the first creator happened by accident. We are less complex than any god and so it is more likely that we happened out of nothing than a previous more complex creator happened out of nothing.

  8. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Lets see if we can bring this down to your level of comprehension Marc. I believe we can all agree that abortion is a medical procedure. I think we all can also agree that all medical procedures can be harmful in one way or another and should be avoided at all costs. So, with this logic, isn't it best to not put oneself into a position where a medical procedure will be neccesary and if we fail to not avoid being in this position, isn't allowing the body to do what it naturally does trump having a medical procedure done?

    Religious beliefs aside, abortions should be avoided at all costs, either by prevention or by giving birth.
    Are you suggesting that all medical procedures, even tooth extraction, should be aborted?

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,941
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien View Post
    Are you suggesting that all medical procedures, even tooth extraction, should be aborted?
    What on Earth would cause you to make such a suggestion? First off, our teeth are already there. It is not like we get teeth because of some act we committed. Sorry Marc, but your post has no "bite" on the subject at hand
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,941
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien View Post
    So then, what the hell is a spiritual entity? That would be anybodies guess. What the hell does it even mean to be spiritual? That is a nonsense.
    And this is the downfall of your being able to have a rational discussion with people of faith. You believe yourself to be superior to those of us of faith based on the fact that you cannot understand how we derive our beliefs.

    You think of yourself as intellectually superior, when if fact it is your being blinded by your intellect that keeps you from being able to understand that which you have limited yourself to comprehend.

    I, as well as most persons of faith, believe that we are foremost spiritual beings in a temporary physical life that has been Created by a spiritually superior being we refer to as God. The purpose for this Creation is a matter of great discussion, but it does exist. We are not humans on a spiritual journey, but rather spiritual beings in a temporary human existance. And you cannot prove this to be wrong.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    What on Earth would cause you to make such a suggestion? First off, our teeth are already there.
    Sorry, but it follows on, logically, from your statement. If you disagree with the point I make then you must also retract your statement.

  12. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    And this is the downfall of your being able to have a rational discussion with people of faith.

    We are not humans on a spiritual journey, but rather spiritual beings in a temporary human existance. And you cannot prove this to be wrong.
    I am providing a rational discussion, just to an irrational subject.

    You cannot prove it to be wrong that we are spiritual beings in a temporary human existance. It is just very unlikely that we are. There is certainly absolutely no evidence that we are "spiritual beings" whatever that is meant to mean ayway.

    There is no superior or inferior here. Just a balancing of what is likely over what is less likely.

  13. #52
    "rational discussion with people of faith"
    Is that a circular argument, or an oxymoron?

    Be careful, Marc - someone will end up taking you to a back-room, shortly.
    The falcon has landed.

Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event