View Poll Results: Would you trust an atheist?

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  • No

    4 11.76%
  • Yes

    17 50.00%
  • Maybe, on a case-by-case basis.

    13 38.24%
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Results 53 to 65 of 71
  1. #53
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    Jul 2006
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    6,310
    [QUOTE=bananaboy;3489012]
    Quote Originally Posted by shaygetz View Post
    You may rest assured he is no devout Christian...

    ??? than how many types of Christians are there ?

    Honest and dishonest ?

    Can a person be a Christian and not be honest, not steal, not backstab, be a hypocrite ...

    After all these posts here, the answer is "may be".

    Can I trust an atheist - yes.

    Should I trust anyone that says he is a Christian, JUST because he is a Christian - no.

    Personal beliefs (religions) should not be a testimony of trustworthiness.

    Trust is earned/built, not granted.

    I believe that there is a higher "being" than us the mortal people.
    That I call God. And I believe It is a form of energy.

    That one from the book - hm ... I still have questions about it.
    Great post.

    Heres the thing the bible was written to Gods people, later to his congregations.
    Many of the things in it happened in the congregation.
    Everyone should be learning and improving themselves every day.
    Remember the Apostle Paul didnt even believe in Jesus at one point in time. He held the outer garments of the men who stoned Stephen to death.
    If he can change we all can change.
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

  2. #54
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    Nov 2008
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    Ottawa Valley, Eastern Ontario, Canada
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    I have a great circle of friends, customers, and other tradespersons that I work with daily.
    All of them are trustworthy.
    I have no idea what religious affiliations any one of them have.
    It has never occurred to me to ask them.
    And I honestly don't care.
    Does it really matter?

  3. #55
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    Apr 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Well, at least he can quote the works of others about fridge quite well.
    Marc has quoted me. Outside of that, Carnot, Charles, Boyle, Clapeyron, Clausius... I must be in good company...
    If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. – Abraham Maslow

  4. #56
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    Nov 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinmandad View Post
    I have a great circle of friends, customers, and other tradespersons that I work with daily.
    All of them are trustworthy.
    I have no idea what religious affiliations any one of them have.
    It has never occurred to me to ask them.
    And I honestly don't care.
    Does it really matter?
    Not in our mortal lifetime it doesn't.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Schoen View Post
    Marc has quoted me. Outside of that, Carnot, Charles, Boyle, Clapeyron, Clausius... I must be in good company...
    You most certainly are, including Marc.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #58
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    Nov 2008
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    Thanks for the reply Robo.
    Am I going to be judged by the company I keep? Even innocently?
    Do I have to start screening my acquaintances?
    Just trying to get along with everyone.

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinmandad View Post
    Thanks for the reply Robo.
    Am I going to be judged by the company I keep? Even innocently?
    Do I have to start screening my acquaintances?
    Just trying to get along with everyone.
    Seems to me that Jesus was acquanted with some rather dubious people in His mortal lifetime. I don't think we are supposed to avoid people who sin, just try to avoid sinning ourselves.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #60
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    Mar 2004
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    SE Michigan
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    Jesus was a long haired hippie freak that kept spouting off all the time. If he were to walk about today, he would be accused of being so and on LSD, and probably thrown in jail.

    Damn hippies!....they make good fire wood.

    "The road to Hell is paved with progressive policies."

  9. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Seems to me that Jesus was acquanted with some rather dubious people in His mortal lifetime. I don't think we are supposed to avoid people who sin, just try to avoid sinning ourselves.
    I'd agree with you there, we aren't supposed to avoid sinners...neither are we to put our confidence in them. How many news stories start out with , "He was known to be quiet, well liked, active in local youth activities, that's why no one understands why he (fill in the blank)"

    Sure I can leave my tools with my assistant over a week's vacation...just because they are there when I get back doesn't necessarily mean he was worthy of trust so much as he was fearful of losing his job. That's not trust displayed, that would be fear of consequences, and sooner or later, one can overcome that fear.
    (The wise men of modern thought) adore a god made of putty or of wax - plastic, effeminate, molluscous, with no masculine faculty about him, and no quality that entitles him to the respect of just and honest men, for a being who cannot be angry at wrongdoing is destitute of one of the essential virtues, and a moral Ruler who is not angry with the wicked, and who refuses to punish crime, is not divine. ---Spurgeon

  10. #62
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    Here's a lesson in human ethics.....dont trust any mutha f*cker and dont get yourself into a situation where you have to.

    WERD!
    "The road to Hell is paved with progressive policies."

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Seems to me that Jesus was acquanted with some rather dubious people in His mortal lifetime. I don't think we are supposed to avoid people who sin, just try to avoid sinning ourselves.
    Good idea, otherwise you wouldnt be able to sell your wares..lol

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  12. #64
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    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien View Post
    Hi Shaygetz,

    Okay, I have to say that your motion is nonsense, here's an explanation...

    Equivocation, it's all an error of equivocation...

    Are Christians good?

    You might think the tricky word in this question is 'good'. After all, 'good' is a topic of philosophical debate, and there can be no better indication that a word is tricky. But, in fact, the problem lies not with 'good' but with 'Christian'. For, however challenging it is to define 'good', most of us share a sufficiently common understanding of the word to agree in most of its applications. And, more importantly it is not ambiguous: there are not two or more clear and distinctly different meanings of the word.

    'Christian', however, is ambiguous. It can be used to refer to a person who holds certain beliefs, such as that God created the Universe and that Jesus is His son (and also God Himself, if our Christian is a Trinitarian). If this is how 'Christian' is understood, then the question 'Are Christians good?' is an interesting one. They might be or they might not. To find the answer we will have to look for evidence, such as a lower than average proportion of Christians in prison, a higher tollerance for people of different beliefs, a higher tollerance of criticism of their own beliefs or higher than average donations to charity or some other such fact.

    There is another common usage of 'Christian', however, on which our question is not in the least interesting: namely, the sense in which 'Christian' just means 'good'. This is the sense employed when people describe immoral acts as un-Christian, or when Father Ted's congregation responds to the revelation of his pederasty by declaring that he is not a real Christian after all. You see, if someone qualifies as a Christian only if he is good, then of course Christians are good - it is true by definition. If you are only ever going to look for the most good of people to call Christian then by your own selection Christians will always only be good. On this interpretation, it is an open question whether those who believe in the divinity of Jesus tend to be Christians. By this definition they could in fact be christians but not actually believe in the divinity of Jesus.

    This ambiguity is harmless, provided we keep clear about which meaning we are using. Trouble comes when we slip between the two meanings despite the validity of our argument requiring us to keep to just one meaning: that is, when we equivocate.

    Suppose, for example, that Jack recommends Christianity to Jill on the ground that it is the path to virtue: 'Open your heart to Jesus, dear Jill, and you will be a sinner no more.' Jill expresses some doubt about this, pointing out that most Mafia assassins are Christians. Jack responds that Guido cannot be counted a Christian; no Christian would have whacked the Don's nephew.
    Jack has equivocated. He uses 'Christian' in its first, belief-based sense when he recommends Christianity as a path to virtue. Then he employs its other sense, on which it is definitionally true that Christians are good, to eliminate an irritating counter-example. Properly to eliminate Guido as a counter-example, Jack would have to show that he did not believe in the divinity of Jesus - which is not entailed by the fact that he whacked the Don's nephew. He could have both wacked the Don's nephew and believe in the devinity of Jesus.

    If Jill points this out, Jack is likely to protest that Christianity is more than mere belief in the divinity of Jesus. It also involves a moral code: the ten commandments and all that. Guido clearly broke the code, so it is no cheat to deny him the status of a Christian. Alas, Jack has again changed his definition of 'Christian'. Now it requires believing in the divinity of Jesus and being virtuous (assuming the Christian moral code is correct). And this makes Jack's advice utterly worthless.

    On this interpretation of 'Christian', telling someone who seeks a path to virtue that she should be a Christian is no better than telling someone who seeks a third leg that he should be a tripod.

    Jack cannot have it both ways. Either he is making an interesting claim about a means to an end or he is simply defining that end. If the former, then he will have to deliver evidence for his claim. If the latter, then, though he may have eliminated the possibility of wicked Christians, he will have rendered Christianity a badge of honour for those who attain virtue, not a path to it. Either way, Jack must pick one interpretation of 'Christian', and stick to it.

    ....Jamie Whyte - Former lecturer of Philosophy at Cambridge University - UK
    Excellent argument. Now getting back to the topic of the thread.

    I think somebody ought to define trust before it's discussed. Otherwise the arguments are going to be necessarily vague and may wander off-topic. That being said, I define trust as outlined by Kant in his "Moral Imperative". It's a mutual agreement that "hey I won't f*** you over if you don't f*** me over. We're going to form a co-op, that will be advantageous to both of us in the long run."

    It's a very fragile agreement, which is why most civilizations adopt a set of laws and employ people to enforce those laws. It is only when given the choice of the lesser of two evils that people in general will conform to the mutual agreement. In cases of two individuals the co-op is less fragile because such a counter-dependence in closed groups is hard-wired into us via evolution. Even the other animals exhibit the same social behaviors. A good read is "The Moral Animal" by Robert Wright. Very enlightening on this and all other related topics.

    I forgot to answer the question. I don't trust anyone any further than I can throw them. But that isn't just a sentiment, it comes from years of experience. People are people, regardless of all else. Christian, atheist, black, white, professors, or morons, they are all subject to the same rule, that is, to do always what they decide is in their own best interests, in any situation. It helps to know what sorts of values they base their decisions about what is best for them on, but all in all, it's a hard and fast rule that applies to everyone. Once this is accepted as fact it can easily be verified with a bit of practice.
    Last edited by hvacrmedic; 06-05-2009 at 01:43 PM.

  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Seems to me that Jesus was acquanted with some rather dubious people in His mortal lifetime. I don't think we are supposed to avoid people who sin, just try to avoid sinning ourselves.
    Thanks again for a very level-headed reply.
    Some of the people in here have extremely closed minds.
    I'm not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination, but I like to keep an open mind, and I am trying to understand the 'religious' side.
    I live in a small town, so you soon learn who is trustworthy.
    I was raised as a Catholic, and grade school was controlled by nuns.
    Religion lessons were taught from the business end of a wooden yardstick.

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