View Poll Results: Would you trust an atheist?

Voters
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  • No

    4 11.76%
  • Yes

    17 50.00%
  • Maybe, on a case-by-case basis.

    13 38.24%
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Results 40 to 52 of 71
  1. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by yellowirenut View Post
    The most untrustworthy person i know personally is a devote Christian...bible classes....readings at masses can quote scripture, all that. But anytime some thing is "free" to grab he will take more than his fair share. He will liberate things laying around to use as his own and add to his collections. He wife has medical problems and he has on more than one occasion told me "I told her to wait till morning to drive herself to the doc" She had blood out both ends.
    Tell others one thing wile he does another just to make his life simple.
    I don't base my trust on religion..To get my trust u have to EARN it.

    I am Catholic if that makes any difference to anyone....which it should not.
    You may rest assured he is no devout Christian...

    For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
    (Luke 6:43-45)
    (The wise men of modern thought) adore a god made of putty or of wax - plastic, effeminate, molluscous, with no masculine faculty about him, and no quality that entitles him to the respect of just and honest men, for a being who cannot be angry at wrongdoing is destitute of one of the essential virtues, and a moral Ruler who is not angry with the wicked, and who refuses to punish crime, is not divine. ---Spurgeon

  2. #41
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    A person's theological beliefs, or disbeliefs, really are not absolute gauges of the honesty of that person. There are plenty of seemingly devout believers of God who are absolutely untrustworthy as there are plenty of devoted atheists and agnostics who are as trustworthy as one can get.

    This would have to be judged on an individual basis. I will say that I have an immediate sense of distrust from anyone who overtly displays iconry of religion. This just makes me feel that that person may be using religion as a cover for their dishonest nature. Right or not, that's just how I feel.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by shaygetz View Post
    You may rest assured he is no devout Christian...
    Hi Shaygetz,

    Okay, I have to say that your motion is nonsense, here's an explanation...

    Equivocation, it's all an error of equivocation...

    Are Christians good?

    You might think the tricky word in this question is 'good'. After all, 'good' is a topic of philosophical debate, and there can be no better indication that a word is tricky. But, in fact, the problem lies not with 'good' but with 'Christian'. For, however challenging it is to define 'good', most of us share a sufficiently common understanding of the word to agree in most of its applications. And, more importantly it is not ambiguous: there are not two or more clear and distinctly different meanings of the word.

    'Christian', however, is ambiguous. It can be used to refer to a person who holds certain beliefs, such as that God created the Universe and that Jesus is His son (and also God Himself, if our Christian is a Trinitarian). If this is how 'Christian' is understood, then the question 'Are Christians good?' is an interesting one. They might be or they might not. To find the answer we will have to look for evidence, such as a lower than average proportion of Christians in prison, a higher tollerance for people of different beliefs, a higher tollerance of criticism of their own beliefs or higher than average donations to charity or some other such fact.

    There is another common usage of 'Christian', however, on which our question is not in the least interesting: namely, the sense in which 'Christian' just means 'good'. This is the sense employed when people describe immoral acts as un-Christian, or when Father Ted's congregation responds to the revelation of his pederasty by declaring that he is not a real Christian after all. You see, if someone qualifies as a Christian only if he is good, then of course Christians are good - it is true by definition. If you are only ever going to look for the most good of people to call Christian then by your own selection Christians will always only be good. On this interpretation, it is an open question whether those who believe in the divinity of Jesus tend to be Christians. By this definition they could in fact be christians but not actually believe in the divinity of Jesus.

    This ambiguity is harmless, provided we keep clear about which meaning we are using. Trouble comes when we slip between the two meanings despite the validity of our argument requiring us to keep to just one meaning: that is, when we equivocate.

    Suppose, for example, that Jack recommends Christianity to Jill on the ground that it is the path to virtue: 'Open your heart to Jesus, dear Jill, and you will be a sinner no more.' Jill expresses some doubt about this, pointing out that most Mafia assassins are Christians. Jack responds that Guido cannot be counted a Christian; no Christian would have whacked the Don's nephew.
    Jack has equivocated. He uses 'Christian' in its first, belief-based sense when he recommends Christianity as a path to virtue. Then he employs its other sense, on which it is definitionally true that Christians are good, to eliminate an irritating counter-example. Properly to eliminate Guido as a counter-example, Jack would have to show that he did not believe in the divinity of Jesus - which is not entailed by the fact that he whacked the Don's nephew. He could have both wacked the Don's nephew and believe in the devinity of Jesus.

    If Jill points this out, Jack is likely to protest that Christianity is more than mere belief in the divinity of Jesus. It also involves a moral code: the ten commandments and all that. Guido clearly broke the code, so it is no cheat to deny him the status of a Christian. Alas, Jack has again changed his definition of 'Christian'. Now it requires believing in the divinity of Jesus and being virtuous (assuming the Christian moral code is correct). And this makes Jack's advice utterly worthless.

    On this interpretation of 'Christian', telling someone who seeks a path to virtue that she should be a Christian is no better than telling someone who seeks a third leg that he should be a tripod.

    Jack cannot have it both ways. Either he is making an interesting claim about a means to an end or he is simply defining that end. If the former, then he will have to deliver evidence for his claim. If the latter, then, though he may have eliminated the possibility of wicked Christians, he will have rendered Christianity a badge of honour for those who attain virtue, not a path to it. Either way, Jack must pick one interpretation of 'Christian', and stick to it.

    ....Jamie Whyte - Former lecturer of Philosophy at Cambridge University - UK

  4. #43
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    [QUOTE=shaygetz;3487482]You may rest assured he is no devout Christian...

    ??? than how many types of Christians are there ?

    Honest and dishonest ?

    Can a person be a Christian and not be honest, not steal, not backstab, be a hypocrite ...

    After all these posts here, the answer is "may be".

    Can I trust an atheist - yes.

    Should I trust anyone that says he is a Christian, JUST because he is a Christian - no.

    Personal beliefs (religions) should not be a testimony of trustworthiness.

    Trust is earned/built, not granted.

    I believe that there is a higher "being" than us the mortal people.
    That I call God. And I believe It is a form of energy.

    That one from the book - hm ... I still have questions about it.

  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien View Post
    Hi Shaygetz,

    Okay, I have to say that your motion is nonsense, here's an explanation...

    OK...you win...I did waaaay too many medicinal herbs and spices in the 70s to compete intellectually and philosophically with the likes of you, Dawkins or Jamie what's-her-name.

    They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    ...of whom I am chief...
    Last edited by shaygetz; 06-02-2009 at 09:51 PM.
    (The wise men of modern thought) adore a god made of putty or of wax - plastic, effeminate, molluscous, with no masculine faculty about him, and no quality that entitles him to the respect of just and honest men, for a being who cannot be angry at wrongdoing is destitute of one of the essential virtues, and a moral Ruler who is not angry with the wicked, and who refuses to punish crime, is not divine. ---Spurgeon

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaygetz View Post
    OK...you win...I did waaaay too many medicinal herbs and spices in the 70s to compete intellectually and philosophically with the likes of you
    Don't mind. Marc's about as good as they come. And he also knows fridge quite well.
    If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. – Abraham Maslow

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Schoen View Post
    Don't mind. Marc's about as good as they come. And he also knows fridge quite well.
    Oh, I don't mind...I came here to learn fridge, the theological sparring is just icing on the cake
    (The wise men of modern thought) adore a god made of putty or of wax - plastic, effeminate, molluscous, with no masculine faculty about him, and no quality that entitles him to the respect of just and honest men, for a being who cannot be angry at wrongdoing is destitute of one of the essential virtues, and a moral Ruler who is not angry with the wicked, and who refuses to punish crime, is not divine. ---Spurgeon

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Schoen View Post
    Don't mind. Marc's about as good as they come. And he also knows fridge quite well.
    Well, at least he can quote the works of others about fridge quite well.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Well, at least he can quote the works of others about fridge quite well.
    Thanks Robo

    BTW, the fridge articles are my own. Every 3 months I submit a 600 word article to the UK's RAC Service Engineer Magazine. I mostly like to write myth busting stuff where I have discovered that the industry has established an incorrect tradition. I hope you enjoy them

    If I post stuff pasted from google searches or from scanned articles, as above by Jamie Whyte (male), I tend to say so. If any of the stuff is from the web then you will find that just copying and pasting any short sentence from it to google will find the source.

    If posting writings by others is wrong then go and complain also to those who quote from your holy book - tell them they should also rather think for themselves

    Anyway, enough religion nonsense, I have lots of fridge thinking to get on with and lectures to create.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    ....... So I expect a certain amount of ethical behavior, even when 'no-one is looking' because God does see all. .........


    Atheists, just animals looking for food until they die, I do not trust them. I know some atheists are nice, but so are some murderers and thieves. I do not trust them.
    Dude -

    Some of the most evil, vile, disgusting folks in history were 'religious'. Then there were folks like Mother Theresa.

    Everyone, even atheists, have the capacity for both good and evil in them.

    Judge not, bud. That's God's job.
    Last edited by engineerdave; 06-03-2009 at 05:15 AM. Reason: Spelling
    The views and opinions posted here are my own. They do not reflect the corporate policies of my employer and will most likely get me fired at some point.

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien View Post
    Thanks Robo

    BTW, the fridge articles are my own. Every 3 months I submit a 600 word article to the UK's RAC Service Engineer Magazine. I mostly like to write myth busting stuff where I have discovered that the industry has established an incorrect tradition. I hope you enjoy them

    If I post stuff pasted from google searches or from scanned articles, as above by Jamie Whyte (male), I tend to say so. If any of the stuff is from the web then you will find that just copying and pasting any short sentence from it to google will find the source.

    If posting writings by others is wrong then go and complain also to those who quote from your holy book - tell them they should also rather think for themselves

    Anyway, enough religion nonsense, I have lots of fridge thinking to get on with and lectures to create.
    Good to know Marc. I was really beginning to worry about you with the way you try to argue against God and berate those of us of faith
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineerdave View Post
    Dude -

    Some of the most evil, vile, disgusting folks in history were 'religious'. Then there were folks like Mother Theresa.

    Everyone, even atheists, have the capacity for both good and evil in them.

    Judge not, bud. That's God's job.
    Obviously, duh! Some of the most evil hide behind various curtains of righteousness, religious and political charades.

    I mean just your basic guy, you know, someone you might work with and have a beer with after work.

  13. #52
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    I have run into a lot more religious people I cant trust, then I have atheist people. Could be there are more religious types, but I think it is there are more religious hypocrites.

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