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Thread: Infinity series

  1. #40
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    Jan 2004
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    Lancaster PA
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    A lot of savings with those electric and gas prices.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  2. #41
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    Apr 2008
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    Northwest Arkansas via Chicago Area via Straight Up from There on Lake Superior
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeshade View Post
    The last time it was below $1.13/therm was in 2002. Here's a record of the prices in my area as calculated by the BLS.

    If I understand your reply, it sounds like in my case a hybrid NG/HP system might have some savings.
    joeshade, your NG prices seem high. Just saw the following quoted in the Arkansas paper:

    "... Prices will rise to $7 per million British thermal units by January, according to a Bloomberg News survey of 20 analysts. Natural-gas futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange have recently been trading just below $4 per million BTU. ..."

    I believe that 10 therms = 1,000,000 BTU's = 10 CCF, right? You're talking over $11 per 1,000,000 BTU's versus the $4-7 market price in the quote. That seem right?

  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by joeshade View Post
    The last time it was below $1.13/therm was in 2002. Here's a record of the prices in my area as calculated by the BLS.

    If I understand your reply, it sounds like in my case a hybrid NG/HP system might have some savings.
    Absolutely, no question about it, however I am questioning your NG prices. I am not sure that those prices reflect your reality, - they are way too high and totally out of whack with Mdwest, for instance. Maybe, they are averaging those prices and taking into the account prices for remote areas in your region. I have no idea how they arrived to those outrageously high numbers but it is just plain and simple highway robbery, as far as I am concerned. You really should check with your utility the real prices they were charging back then and now.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    9
    Well, I looked at my gas bills and with the way the run the charges it can be difficult to calculate the price/therm. That's why I went with the BLS website in order to swag it. My salesman was calculating it at $1.70/therm, but BLS puts it more in the $1.50 range, at least for the Baltimore-Washington region. You can check the figures here.

    Here's my bill details:

    TOTAL THERMS (TH) USED 42.0
    DISTRIBUTION SERVICE
    DISTRIBUTION CHARGE:
    25.0 TH @$.4548 $11.37
    17.0 TH @$.2906 $4.94
    SYSTEM CHARGE $9.00
    PGC @$.7291 $30.62
    NATURAL GAS SUPPLY SERVICE
    LOCAL UTILITY TAX $2.72
    ST.& LOCAL CONSUMPTION TAX $0.76
    TOTAL GAS CHARGES $59.41

    So I think the delta between the futures market and what the typical consumer pays is pretty clear. (You could figure it by $59.41/42TH = $1.41/Th)

    That's why I used BLS to figure that out for me. I'm open to other sources, though.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    9
    Does it make more sense to pair an 80% AFU NG furnace with a heat pump for my region rather than a 95% AFU? Or should I hedge my bets with future energy prices by shelling out more for a highly efficient system (both HP and NG furnace for a hybrid) up front?

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    141
    Quote Originally Posted by energy_freak View Post
    Absolutely, no question about it, however I am questioning your NG prices. I am not sure that those prices reflect your reality, - they are way too high and totally out of whack with Mdwest, for instance. Maybe, they are averaging those prices and taking into the account prices for remote areas in your region. I have no idea how they arrived to those outrageously high numbers but it is just plain and simple highway robbery, as far as I am concerned. You really should check with your utility the real prices they were charging back then and now.
    I track my NG costs by taking the total billings over the last 12 months divided by the total therms used over that last 12 months. Over the last 12 months my average billed price per therm including all fees, taxes, etc has been $1.46 which is down from $1.62 about a year ago in the Atlanta area.

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by joeshade View Post
    Does it make more sense to pair an 80% AFU NG furnace with a heat pump for my region rather than a 95% AFU? Or should I hedge my bets with future energy prices by shelling out more for a highly efficient system (both HP and NG furnace for a hybrid) up front?
    There are other factors involved to make intelligent decision, like low energy consumption air handler. I do not believe it is available for NG furnaces with less than 90% AFU.

  8. #47
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    Jan 2004
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    Lancaster PA
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    VS blowers are available on 80% gas furnaces.




    Keep in mind. That the Futures prices are not retail prices.



    Not really better off with a 80% furnace if your going to lock out the HP at 40F.

    Baltimore DC area should have 2000 or so heating hours under 40F.
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  9. #48
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Well, here are the two system configurations I'm considering and I'd appreciate input:

    25HNA636 Infinity 16 HP
    58MVC080-14 Infinity Gas Furnace (95% eff)

    or

    25HNA636 Infinity 16 HP
    58CVA090-16 Infinity Gas Furnace (80% eff)

    Thanks!

  10. #49
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    Jan 2004
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    Lancaster PA
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    What was your gas bill for heating for last winter?
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  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    What was your gas bill for heating for last winter?
    I just checked NG prices for the 3 coldest months here and I was right, delivered price is 0.70-0.80 cents per therm. It was much worse last year when Wall Street crooks were pushing Oil and NG futures higher. I only wonder what can we do to stop those thieves who are messing up with our lives and standards of living.

  12. #51
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    Jan 2004
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    Lancaster PA
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    It will be worse later this year.

    I was asking joeshade what his gas bill was for the year, to compafre to homes here.
    For doing a cost comparison.
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  13. #52
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    9
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    What was your gas bill for heating for last winter?
    Here's a range of payments for the last 8 months. The Sep and Aug bills (for Aug and July) show what's used for hot water and clothes dryer):

    Apr 29, 2009 $98.48
    Mar 27, 2009 $131.44
    Feb 26, 2009 $228.89
    Jan 27, 2009 $167.45
    Dec 22, 2008 $144.41
    Nov 21, 2008 $91.55
    Sep 23, 2008 $33.41
    Aug 26, 2008 $32.03

    You can also dice the data this way. This was a fun exercise, I learned something!

    Mo/Yr HDD Th $/Th
    04/09 494 68 .69
    03/09 790 128 1.02
    02/09 1078 171 1.33
    01/09 732 113 1.48
    12/08 615 87 1.65

    Thanks!

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