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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    32

    Help deciding if to oversize a Trane XL16i

    I know it is almost taboo to oversize a condenser, however I am right at the break point of a 2TON system in my house after a J load calc.

    As you are probably aware the XL16i don't come in .5 increments rather 2 or 3 TONS.

    Here is my reasoning and let me know what you think.
    I figure since the XL16i is a 2 stage unit I will probably be running the 1st stage most of the time, until temp increases and the load in the house increases then 2nd stage kicks in.
    In my previous post I stated that I am considering expanding over my garage in about 5 years (maybe), if I do i would hate to have to pull out a 5yr old condenser.
    What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dry as a bone Tucson
    Posts
    4,275
    5 years (maybe), Maybe-3 ton, maybe not 2 ton.
    Some Talk, Some Do
    "keeping condensing pressures low and evaporator pressures high"
    "Some customers are more interested in comfort than energy savings"
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  3. #3
    This type situation could be among the reasons that people are cautioned not to focus too much on brand.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Zelienople, Pa
    Posts
    2,965
    Quote Originally Posted by Thebil Illpay View Post
    This type situation could be among the reasons that people are cautioned not to focus too much on brand.
    This statement makes no sense at all.

    If this guy wants a 2 stage unit, nobody makes one that is in 1/2 ton increments.

    Depending on how much over 2 tons that the load calls for and where you live would determine upsizing to a 3 ton.
    If you are closer to a 2 1/2 ton load, go with the 3. If you are closer to 2 tons, go with the 2.
    How tall are you Private???!!!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnery Sergeant Hartman View Post
    This statement makes no sense at all.

    If this guy wants a 2 stage unit, nobody makes one that is in 1/2 ton increments.

    Depending on how much over 2 tons that the load calls for and where you live would determine upsizing to a 3 ton.
    If you are closer to a 2 1/2 ton load, go with the 3. If you are closer to 2 tons, go with the 2.
    Yes I am at 1.87 i believe on the J Load calc. The house is calculated at 1352 sq/ft living space.
    If I stay with the 2Ton system and expand on my house do you think this will put a load on the condensor that it will be running on 2nd stage more often?
    If I go with the 3Ton and expanded the house the system will be cycling more often?

    By the way if I expand the house it would be a 20 x 20 addition so we are talking about a "possible" 400 sq/ft extra.

    I do understand it is difficult to say without seeing the house, but I am asking for professional experience/advise. Thank you!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Did you check the actual sensible cooling output of the unit with the matched air handler and coil?

    Are you in a humid climate?

    Also consider that a 3 Ton unit needs larger ductwork to handle the high airflow. 3 tons need 1200CFM, 2 tons need 800CFM. That's a big difference in how much air is being moved.

    Other factors... do you tend to use A/C in the "shoulder season" of March-May and October, or do you leave windows open and wait as long as possible to run the A/C?

    If you use a large set-back you may want the extra capacity so it can recover faster. If you have high solar heat gains, you may also want the extra capacity.

    You might want to look at the XL15i and use the dehumidification features of the thermostat to dehumidify on demand with the VS fan. A 2 speed unit is for comfort and I think dehmidify on demand may function better than a unloading scroll.


    From my experience, I have a XL16i that's oversized for heating capacity, and I find it still has fairly long run times even in very mild weather and the Visionpro IAQ keeps it on 1st stage. I also run it at 350CFM/ton and use Comfort-R for added dehumidification in summer and warmer register temps in the winter. That also drops it's overall capacity slightly with only a small reduction in efficiency... according to the data sheets I've seen.

    I also may be expanding my house in the future, so the added capacity may come in handy. I think oversizing slightly may work out well for you, but just make sure the ductwork gets sized correctly and the branches get balanced.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    32
    Wow, great info.
    I live in Northern, NJ and so far we had two 80 degree days this year. Other than that I don't think I would run the AC up until maybe May, but even today is cold here.
    The contractor who did the J load said a 3Ton would not be an issue to install, so I would assume that he looked at the ducting, but will confirm.
    I am also going to go with the VisionPro IAQ as I asked him to match up the XL16i with a TXV coil which I read was better for de-humidification.

    I am also looking to have a Trane Cleaneffects and an Aprilaire 400 humidifier put in with this system. What do you think about that setup?
    I was told it is better to stay away from the powered humidifiers as they waste water and use power ofcourse, so I am looking at the Aprilaire 400.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by dohcser View Post
    Yes I am at 1.87 i believe on the J Load calc. The house is calculated at 1352 sq/ft living space.
    If I stay with the 2Ton system and expand on my house do you think this will put a load on the condensor that it will be running on 2nd stage more often?
    If I go with the 3Ton and expanded the house the system will be cycling more often?

    By the way if I expand the house it would be a 20 x 20 addition so we are talking about a "possible" 400 sq/ft extra.

    I do understand it is difficult to say without seeing the house, but I am asking for professional experience/advise. Thank you!
    It all depends on how air tight & well insulated the garage & house are going to be.

    Nothing has to stay the same as the initial load calc.

    Depending on where you live, I'm betting right energy saving techniques could make the 2-ton work about right on 1752 sf.

    I'm using a Half-Ton window shaker on 1st floor around 900-sf in a 1937 home load with windows & it works perfect even at 104-F Heat Index. I did nothing to reduce the load.

    Optimizing: duct airflow + insulation + windows + Reduce Air Infiltration to an acceptable minimum. Two ton will cool a lot of area if everything is set-up & done right.
    ----------
    Home Energy Magazine Online September/October 1993
    Raising Standards and Savings
    New Group Hunts Bad Ducts


    Does 40 billion kWh sound like a lot of energy? Researchers believe that's how much electrical this country "could save by fixing inefficient ducts using current techniques." "Refining those [duct retro] techniques could reap savings of 90 billion kWh" plus 9 billion heating therms! Peak loads would be reduced too. [What about reducing Air Infiltration Infiltration.]

    To pursue these tremendous savings, national, state, and utility research laboratories, the U.S. Department of Energy, utilities, and energy service companies are collaborating. Their consortium is called "Residential Energy Efficient Distribution Systems," or REEDS. [Not seen it here!]

    Home Air Infiltration can be in some situations 50% or more of the Load.
    Image Source: DTI Corp - Darrell

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Gunnery Sergeant Hartman;3354462]This statement makes no sense at all.
    QUOTE] It cetainly does if you are a consumer that does not know that until you are told.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,874
    A 3 ton 16i is is over 2 tons of capacity in first stage. Closer to 2.4 tons then 2 tons.

    Probably a bad idea.

    If you expand out over the garage. Plan on getting a separate system for that area.
    That way, if you don't do the addition, your not stuck with an oversized unit, making your home too humid most of the time.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    32
    i recently got off the phone with the contractor and we went over the options and side effects of doing a 3Ton XL16i. He advised me that I am paying for a 2 stage compressor that will be using only one stage, and if I were to expand I should consider doing a separate unit for the addition.
    With that being said I am now considering the XL15i with my Rheem furnace and adding an Aprilaire 4200 air cleaner with an Aprilaire 400 humidifier.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,467

    Garage unit?

    As earlier posted, you might want to size the unit to the existing house, especially if putting in the ductwork to the future garage addition will present some problems. Many times we see a garage (or bonus room) that presents some real problems in getting sufficient air flow to it from the existing unit in basement. Putting in a small seperate unit is usually the best solution, but this would be different with each addition. You need an experienced HVAC person look at the future problems, and go with his advice. "Don't listen to the cousin of your brother-in law who is in tech school!"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,467

    Good job!

    Sounds like you are doing it right!! Good job!

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