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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    15

    Qs on a Trane dual-fuel system

    I'm planning to replace my 20 year old A/C & gas furnace with a heat pump/gas furnace dual-fuel system.

    2-story, no zoning, 2500 sqft, 3 ton existing unit.

    I asked for a system that would qualify for the federal rebate, and got a quote for the following Trane system:

    Heat pump: 4TWX5036 (36k BTUs)

    Gas furnace: TUD1B080A9H3 (TUD1B080A9H31B?) (80k BTUs, 80%)

    Coil :CE36D44+TDR

    "digital thermostat"

    Using existing lines & ductwork, so do I need to ask about a dryer on those lines? (avoid quick connects in favor of copper-brazed connections?)

    What about a TXV? (no mention on the quote)

    What about single-speed vs. multi-speed blower? (don't I have to upgrade to a 2-stage furnace for a variable-speed blower?)

    Are there still concerns about the BTU output on Trane heat pumps?

    Anything modifications/options I might want to consider?

    Thanks for any input!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
    II asked for a system that would qualify for the federal rebate, and got a quote for the following Trane system:

    Heat pump: 4TWX5036 (36k BTUs)

    Gas furnace: TUD1B080A9H3 (TUD1B080A9H31B?) (80k BTUs, 80%)

    Coil :CE36D44+TDR
    That system match does indeed qualify for the Federal Tax Rebate for the heat pump.

    The coil is made by Aspen.

    AHRI Reference# 3376597.
    36,000 btu cooling, 15.5 SEER, 12.55 EER, 8.85 HSPF, 37,000 btu heating at 47F.
    Those are solid performance numbers.

    What is the warranty on the Aspen coil since it is not a Trane coil?

    Good luck.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    dayton ohio
    Posts
    25
    ok... how does an 80% furnace qualify?? this still blows my mind. but a variable speed puron lennox a/h does not

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
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    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by dmaxbury1 View Post
    ok... how does an 80% furnace qualify?? this still blows my mind. but a variable speed puron lennox a/h does not
    The furnace does not qualify. The heat pump qualifies.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by dmaxbury1 View Post
    ok... how does an 80% furnace qualify?? this still blows my mind. but a variable speed puron lennox a/h does not
    It's all in the matched ratings with have to do with airflow and coil design and how they function together. The dimensions of the funace cabinet, indoor oil design and other small details affect the efficiency of the system.

    Look at it this way. You can buy virtually the same 2.4L "world" engine (I believe it's a shared engine block design) in a GM, Hyundai, Chrysler, or Mitsubishi product and get fuel economy ranging from 24mph in a Jeep product to 34mpg in the Malibu depending on what transmission is installed, its' gearing, the weight and shape of the car, and how they tuned the engine for that application.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    15
    Quote says "10 year parts, 12 year compressor, 1 year labor" warranty

    Obviously I need to clarify that the above covers the coil as well.

    Any comments on the value of upgrading the furnace in a hot climate like mine?
    (it appears the next 80% model up would give 2-stage heat & 4-speed blower)

    I didn't have any comfort issues with the previous single-speed, standing-pilot furnace, though it did seem to cycle on/off a lot.

    I'm primarily concerned with keeping cool when we hit 100 & 95% humidity.

    Thanks for your replies!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
    Quote says "10 year parts, 12 year compressor, 1 year labor" warranty

    Obviously I need to clarify that the above covers the coil as well.

    Any comments on the value of upgrading the furnace in a hot climate like mine?
    (it appears the next 80% model up would give 2-stage heat & 4-speed blower)

    I didn't have any comfort issues with the previous single-speed, standing-pilot furnace, though it did seem to cycle on/off a lot.

    I'm primarily concerned with keeping cool when we hit 100 & 95% humidity.

    Thanks for your replies!

    The heat pump will be your primary heat. The furnace will provide aux heat when the heat pump cannot keep up.

    Depending on the thermostat selected (recommend the Honeywell VisionPro 8320 Touch Screen), you can lock-out the furnace at a certain temp (say above 32F and above) and lock-out the heat pump at another temp (say 31F and below). You need an outdoor temp probe along with the VisionPro to do this.

    You can change the lock-out temps based on your fuel costs and comfort choice.

    Take care.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
    I'm planning to replace my 20 year old A/C & gas furnace with a heat pump/gas furnace dual-fuel system.

    2-story, no zoning, 2500 sqft, 3 ton existing unit.

    I asked for a system that would qualify for the federal rebate, and got a quote for the following Trane system:

    Heat pump: 4TWX5036 (36k BTUs)

    Gas furnace: TUD1B080A9H3 (TUD1B080A9H31B?) (80k BTUs, 80%)

    Coil :CE36D44+TDR

    "digital thermostat"

    Using existing lines & ductwork, so do I need to ask about a dryer on those lines? (avoid quick connects in favor of copper-brazed connections?)

    What about a TXV? (no mention on the quote)

    What about single-speed vs. multi-speed blower? (don't I have to upgrade to a 2-stage furnace for a variable-speed blower?)

    Are there still concerns about the BTU output on Trane heat pumps?

    Anything modifications/options I might want to consider?

    Thanks for any input!

    It's always nice to have a new lineset when going from R22 to R410A but it's not always possible. Each mfr has a recommended procedure for cleaning the oil out of the old lines.

    I'm sure the heat pump already has a built-in liquid line filter-drier. You can have one installed on the liquid line at the inside coil also, cheap insurance I think.

    Everything with R410A should be brazed, there are no quick-connects any more, AFAIK.

    I am pretty sure they are quoting you a TXV as they probably need it to meet the SEER numbers, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

    I am a fan of variable speed blowers, but don't know enough about Trane stuff to answer your question.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,089
    The 80% furnace won't qualify for tax credit but they would get it from the 15 SEER HP. What is probably going to happen is dealers will have to break down how much of the sale is qualifying and how much isn't. With a 15 SEER HP, probably not hard to make it come out to over $5000 to get the full credit.

    3rd party coils like Aspen do get some high figures but they are all computer simulated. Will it get that in real life? Also it would only have a 5 year parts warranty not 10 like the Trane coil. That coil has a TXV.

    That furnace has an X13 motor which is high efficiency not variable speed. With A-S/Trane, you do have to step up to 2 stage to get VS blower. As for the low heat of a A-S/Trane pumps, the 15i is the exception as you can see from the rating Gary posted.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    15
    Well, I'm told I will get a 10 year warranty on the coil with this system package, and that the furnace has a 3-speed blower (not true variable), which will be an upgrade over my current single-speed blower (can 3rd-party stats like the Honeywell still be used?)

    Thanks again for all your input!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
    Well, I'm told I will get a 10 year warranty on the coil with this system package, and that the furnace has a 3-speed blower (not true variable), which will be an upgrade over my current single-speed blower (can 3rd-party stats like the Honeywell still be used?)

    Thanks again for all your input!
    Yes you can still use a 3rd part thermostst. Actually Honey makes most if not all of Trane's thermoststs. actually I don't think any companies make their own thermostats. Most furnace control boards and gas valves are made by soemones else as well.

    You may still be able ot reduce fan speed to dehumidify. You're installer would need ot be well trained and be willing to use a relay and know how to wire it correctly. But it can be done. The honeywell Visonpro IAQ and the White Rogers thermostst give instructions in their installation manuals how to do this.

    But some installers don't like to read or don't like to do new or different things from what they are used to.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
    and that the furnace has a 3-speed blower (not true variable), which will be an upgrade over my current single-speed blower
    I believe that a 3 speed blower still runs at 1 speed for the a/c and another speed for the gas heat. Changing speeds requires moving wires. It's still basically a single speed blower in that it doesn't change speeds while running. A pro needs to verify my statement.

    Best to you.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,922
    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    I believe that a 3 speed blower still runs at 1 speed for the a/c and another speed for the gas heat. Changing speeds requires moving wires. It's still basically a single speed blower in that it doesn't change speeds while running. A pro needs to verify my statement.

    Best to you.
    On most single stage furnaces yes. No need to change speed during a call for heat.

    Some are set up to have a 2 stage A/C. Those models can change speed when a different stage of A/C is called for.
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