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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    That's up to each of us, ain't it? It's our choice. We've already been judged guilty by the Law. And the Law calls for eternal damnation for that verdict. But God (I LOVE those 2 words..."but God"...) made a way for us to be found not just innocent but also righteous through and ONLY through Christ's finished work on the cross. In other words, Christ has provided us with a means to be found not only to have not done anything wrong but also to have done everything right. We are seen through the shed blood of Christ...the most powerful thing known to mankind. It covers our sin and makes us holy and acceptable to enter eternal life...and live in the very presence of Holy God.
    How sweet it is!

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    That's up to each of us, ain't it? It's our choice. We've already been judged guilty by the Law. And the Law calls for eternal damnation for that verdict. But God (I LOVE those 2 words..."but God"...) made a way for us to be found not just innocent but also righteous through and ONLY through Christ's finished work on the cross. In other words, Christ has provided us with a means to be found not only to have not done anything wrong but also to have done everything right. We are seen through the shed blood of Christ...the most powerful thing known to mankind. It covers our sin and makes us holy and acceptable to enter eternal life...and live in the very presence of Holy God.
    Which law are we guilty of breaking?

    So as long as we believe in Christ we avoid eternal damnation?
    Preach the Gospel at all times - if necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by homersodyssey View Post
    I've always thought God would be judging us. Usually in judgement there are consequences and verdicts.
    Let me clarify what I tried to say there:

    Quote Originally Posted by TB View Post

    We aren't told [in that passage] who will be doing the judging of the one with the critical mind Jesus warns against.
    Yes, ultimately God does the final judging, so it is impossible for any man to do what only God can do, and would therefore be meaningless for Jesus to tell people to not do what only God can do anyways. That would be like Jesus telling us not to foretell the future with 100% accuracy, or create a universe. Jesus is telling us not to do something we do, do, ie. have a critical view of others. If it were God, that Jesus was referring to, that would be "judging " us, as a result of our critical view of others, then what this passage would be saying is, " do not continually have a critical view of others or God will have a continually critical view of you." But that is not the nature of God. He does not react toward us critically, but with kindness and patience, until the appointed time when we will be judged. Jesus did not specify intentionally, because He was saying return judgment (critical view) of us, won't necessarily be from a specific direction or source, but that it will return to us, just as we dished it out. We see this played out every day, just as Jesus said it would happen. People easily, and openly criticize a critical person, but very few people are willing ti be critical of someone who is always gracious , patient and kind to others.

    As He sums up the point:

    Mat 7:12 In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets.
    TB
    Everyone knows something I don't.

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  4. #30
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    Which law are we guilty of breaking?

    Each and every one. Scripture says when we violate one, we violate all.

    So as long as we believe in Christ we avoid eternal damnation?

    That's what God says. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." There are many, many other passages that say the same thing.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  5. #31
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    He does say many times to believe in Him. However, if there are no consequences for sin then there is no judgement either. He mentions judgement a lot too. Is there a contradiction here on His part or a misunderstanding on yours?
    Preach the Gospel at all times - if necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

  6. #32
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    There are two Heavenly scenes of judgement in the Bible, the Great White Throne of judgement where the Unblievers are cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity and the Bema [Mercy Seat] of Christ where we are only judged/rewarded for our faithfulness on earth as believers in Christ.

    If you see the Great White Throne, then you are sunk for eternity since Believers will not appear there.

  7. #33
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    Spot on, JR.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by homersodyssey View Post
    He does say many times to believe in Him. However, if there are no consequences for sin then there is no judgement either. He mentions judgement a lot too. Is there a contradiction here on His part or a misunderstanding on yours?
    Saying you believe and actually believing are two very different things. God knows our hearts, and God knows who believes in Him enough to love Him as their Father.

    Those who claim to believe, may truly not, and those who never say they believe may actually believe quite reverently. In these matters, God knows us better then we know ourselves.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRINJAX View Post
    There are two Heavenly scenes of judgement in the Bible, the Great White Throne of judgement where the Unblievers are cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity and the Bema [Mercy Seat] of Christ where we are only judged/rewarded for our faithfulness on earth as believers in Christ.

    If you see the Great White Throne, then you are sunk for eternity since Believers will not appear there.
    Ok, so there is judgement after death. God makes a decision on where we spend eternity: heaven or hell. What is He basing his decision on? It seems Boot's answer is whether we believe in Him or not. On that basis it seems less like a judgement and more a choice. What's there to judge if the criteria is so straight forward?
    Preach the Gospel at all times - if necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Saying you believe and actually believing are two very different things. God knows our hearts, and God knows who believes in Him enough to love Him as their Father.

    Those who claim to believe, may truly not, and those who never say they believe may actually believe quite reverently. In these matters, God knows us better then we know ourselves.
    I heard an account once describing this scene. It's unlike JR's white throne and sea of fire. It goes that after death we approach God like a child. He bends down to receive us like any parent does for a toddler. If we run into His arms we stay with Him for eternity. If we are suspicious and reject Him, we live forever in His absence.

    So you are saying we may think we believe in God but actually might not? Also, those who don't believe such as an atheist may actually be a reverent believer?

    Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you."

    This passage is often used by Pro-Lifers. Didn't someone challenge it here not too long ago to mean God only knew the phophets before they were born and not necessariliy everyone? Anyway, on this point we agree: God knows us all and is all knowing.
    Preach the Gospel at all times - if necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by homersodyssey View Post
    I heard an account once describing this scene. It's unlike JR's white throne and sea of fire. It goes that after death we approach God like a child. He bends down to receive us like any parent does for a toddler. If we run into His arms we stay with Him for eternity. If we are suspicious and reject Him, we live forever in His absence.

    So you are saying we may think we believe in God but actually might not? Also, those who don't believe such as an atheist may actually be a reverent believer?

    Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you."

    This passage is often used by Pro-Lifers. Didn't someone challenge it here not too long ago to mean God only knew the phophets before they were born and not necessariliy everyone? Anyway, on this point we agree: God knows us all and is all knowing.
    You keep trying to put me in catagories that I just don't belong in, and I find that quite offensive. I constantly make it clear that I am no more certain of many of the ways I understand scripture then any other person can be.

    Yes, I am the one who noted that God's noting that He knew someone before that someone was formed in the womb happened to be referring to a specific prophet. I have made no claims that only prophets were known by God before conception because, just like anyone else, I do not know that for certain.

    The account you started your post with seems like a reasonable parable. Those who believe go to God as a child to a parent and those who do not believe reject God and therefore can not understand God's love.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #38
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    Mat 7:1 was written to the early Christian congregation.
    Jesus was speaking about mercy in dealing with others see also James 2;13.
    Does this mean that a Christian has no opinion on things related to the bible? No Jesus also said in John 7;24 Stop judging from the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
    Remember 1st timothy 5;20 says to 20*Reprove before all onlookers persons who practice sin, that the rest also may have fear.
    Practicing sin is completely different from committing a sin.
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    You keep trying to put me in catagories that I just don't belong in, and I find that quite offensive. I constantly make it clear that I am no more certain of many of the ways I understand scripture then any other person can be.
    I'm sorry if I offended you, it certainly wasn't my intention. All I'm trying to do is understand where you are coming from on this and most other issues we chat about.

    I don't understand how someone can believe in God but be mistaken nor how someone who rejects God might actually be a reverent believer.

    There may be a tendency on my part to pigeon hole non-Catholics as there are many issues you all look the same to me on. With time I'm coming to realize how you see scripture may be different then boot, or TB, or even more challenging chaps like arc8 and acman.
    Preach the Gospel at all times - if necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

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