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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    And THAT is the difference between judgement and discernment.
    Yup, God does the judging and we are to be discerning. However, when he makes a judgement and puts it in his word (the scriptures) then we do have the right and responsibility to recognize it. In ourselves first.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    Interesting timing for this thread... we are studying the sermon on the mount for my Discipleship Curriculum. I'll make certain to probe a bit deeper on this particular passage during our discussion tomorrow morning at 0600.

    Well jrbenny, I only wish I could be there to participate.

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Yup, God does the judging and we are to be discerning. However, when he makes a judgement and puts it in his word (the scriptures) then we do have the right and responsibility to recognize it. In ourselves first.
    Sure. Recognition is discernment...not judgment. That is my point. We are called to discern...not judge. But when we discern, ignorant people say we judge.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  4. #17
    Can't add anything to what's been said except thanks for this kind of discussion, it's made my evening.
    (The wise men of modern thought) adore a god made of putty or of wax - plastic, effeminate, molluscous, with no masculine faculty about him, and no quality that entitles him to the respect of just and honest men, for a being who cannot be angry at wrongdoing is destitute of one of the essential virtues, and a moral Ruler who is not angry with the wicked, and who refuses to punish crime, is not divine. ---Spurgeon

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaygetz View Post
    Can't add anything to what's been said except thanks for this kind of discussion, it's made my evening.
    Also, check out the thread on 2 Chronicles 7:14 as well.

  6. #19
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    Now this is a theological conversation I can get into. The one liner preachers have always bugged me. I also believe we need to dwell more on the intent of terms used in scripture from the cultures and time periods in which they were used. Even the term "to hate" has a different conontation from Hebrew Testament usage to New Testament usage.

    We cannot use current defiinitions of terms in order to understand scripture. So, some study of anthropology and entymology is needed and archaeology can help a lot for cultural understanding.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Now this is a theological conversation I can get into. The one liner preachers have always bugged me. I also believe we need to dwell more on the intent of terms used in scripture from the cultures and time periods in which they were used. Even the term "to hate" has a different conontation from Hebrew Testament usage to New Testament usage.

    We cannot use current defiinitions of terms in order to understand scripture. So, some study of anthropology and entymology is needed and archaeology can help a lot for cultural understanding.
    a.k.a. hermeneutics

    I totally agree. If in two thousand years someone comes across something written today that said it was raining cats and dogs, it will be interpreted to mean: a) raining heavily (b) animals falling from the sky (c) something else entirely derived to fit an ulterior motive. Much of the Bible was written over two thousand years ago in a variety of genres and with some authors unknown. Much care is needed in interpretation especially given the subject matter.
    Preach the Gospel at all times - if necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

  8. #21
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    1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
    A couple more thoughts.

    We aren't told who will be doing the judging of the one with the critical mind Jesus warns against.

    I think Jesus is also giving us insight into why we can be so self-conscious at times, or with some people, all the time. If we have a critical outlook--we frequently use words like "Idiot", "moron", "dumb-s", in reference to others, we expect that others also "judge" us the same way, and become introverts in an attempt to avoid anything they might judge us for. When we stop criticizing others, we are much more comfortable in our own skins, because we forget to worry about what others might be thinking about us, or rather, what we think others might be thinking about us, which in reality, probably never occurred to them. We stop judging ourselves with the measure we used to judge others. This can be a key principle in "Self esteem" self analysis. People with "low self-esteem" may simply be victims of the belief that others have the same thoughts about them, that they have about others. In short, "Low self-esteem" is when your focus is on yourself, instead of on Jesus.


    Frequently, the most apparent thing we see "wrong" in others, is our own faults. It may be a fault they actually do have, but it bugs us, because we are aware of it in ourselves. If we respond to that character flaw in them by "judging" them, then we are in essence pointing out, or, calling attention to a character flaw that up till now, was graciously ignored in us, and we get critiqued with the same measure.
    Last edited by TB; 05-10-2009 at 04:05 AM.
    TB
    Everyone knows something I don't.

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TB View Post
    AWe aren't told who will be doing the judging of the one with the critical mind Jesus warns against.
    I've always thought God would be judging us. Usually in judgement there are consequences and verdicts.
    Preach the Gospel at all times - if necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by homersodyssey View Post
    I've always thought God would be judging us. Usually in judgement there are consequences and verdicts.
    That's what Scripture teaches. And to judge is to presume to be God. Feller name Lucifer tried that.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  11. #24
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    So what will be the consequences and verdicts of our lives before our Lord?
    Preach the Gospel at all times - if necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by homersodyssey View Post
    I've always thought God would be judging us. Usually in judgement there are consequences and verdicts.
    From what I have always discerned from the scripture is; Don't be the Judge, Jury, Executioner unless you are ready for God to judge/punish you by the standards that you use on others.

    This has nothing to do with deciding what is right or wrong as long as we don't make convienient or inconsistant standards.

    Jesus set the standard with the "removing the board from your own eye" before you get hung up on the "speck" in someone else's eye.

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by homersodyssey View Post
    So what will be the consequences and verdicts of our lives before our Lord?
    That's up to each of us, ain't it? It's our choice. We've already been judged guilty by the Law. And the Law calls for eternal damnation for that verdict. But God (I LOVE those 2 words..."but God"...) made a way for us to be found not just innocent but also righteous through and ONLY through Christ's finished work on the cross. In other words, Christ has provided us with a means to be found not only to have not done anything wrong but also to have done everything right. We are seen through the shed blood of Christ...the most powerful thing known to mankind. It covers our sin and makes us holy and acceptable to enter eternal life...and live in the very presence of Holy God.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

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