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  1. #1

    Carrier vs Am Std Unit Question

    OK I am here in Central TX and the time has come to consider replacement of my old (15+ years of good service) Trane 1100's ! I have a 2500 sq Ft house with 2 units. Currently the old Tranes are a 3 Ton up and a 2 Ton Downstairs. Up I have about 1500 ft^2 and down I have about 1000 ft^s (with ten foot ceilings). I am looking at a couple of systems and would like any advice in comparing the two. I have a contractor already picked out so this is based on relative merit of the units. Price is a draw between them as well (no more said to stay in the rules of the board). As I grow older I value quiet and reliability so noise matters inside and out. My understanding is that both units qual for the Fed Rebate and are VS/ Dual stage units. The Carrier ARI below I think is a recipricating Compressor vs Scroll (not sure how much that really matters). The cost delta to me for the recip vs the scroll version was what but these 2 units in the same range. Not sure what type of comp the Am Std has on this one. I do wonder about the additional complexity of the Carrier unit (This Infinity 21 can control humidity vs just temp and has sensors in the outside unit to help it dial in temps and loads). As an engineer by trade I am drawn to the complexity but also have seen cases where it winds up not being a real positive. Simplicity does have its place too !

    These 2 units are to replace the upstairs unit that currently has a little coil leak (needs 1 charge per season - so far a very slow leak). I also appreciate any input on replacing the down unit despite the fact that it is not truly broke yet. Part if me says bite the bullet and just go for both. The other part says if it AIN't BROKE ... enough said ...

    Thanks in advance !


    Unit 1 (Am Std :
    ARI : 3303215
    Allegiance 16 Communicating
    4A7A6036C1
    C(B,P)48D44+TDR
    ASPEN Coil
    *UD060R9V3
    Amer Std 17/13
    3T
    36000 cool BTU's

    Carrier Unit :
    ARI: 3337950
    24ANA736A31
    C36H175D45(6,9)
    ADP Coil
    58CV(A,X)090-16
    Carrier 16/13
    Infinity 21
    3 Ton
    34200 cooling BTU

    Dave in Austin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Just curious, why are both systems using aftermarket indoor coils?

    I know you can get a better rating (actual performance is not better, just the rating is), but will both Carrier and American Standard stand behind the warranty on the outdoor units when they are attached to an aftermarket indoor coil?

    Is American Standard having the same problems with coil leaks that Carrier is? Is that the reason for the aftermarket coils?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    1,701
    the after market coils are for getting that particular tonnage to qualify for the tax break. both are quiet systems and both will provide good service when installed correctly.
    "When the people find they can vote themselves money,that will herald the end of the republic" - Benjamin Franklin

    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force;like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action"- George Washington

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    R.O.T.
    Posts
    301
    My vote goes to the A/S. I have'nt had good luck with Carrier or any Carrier products for that matter.

  5. #5

    American Std vs Carrier (Recip Comp) vs Carrier (Scroll Comp)

    I have another question - What about Carrier with a recipricating Compressor vs Carrier with the Scroll Compressor ? The Scroll compressor pushes up the SEER to 18 from 16 but at a decent chunk of change in up front cost. I think that the American standard unit is a DUAL scroll compressor arrangement. It seems that the new units are headed to scroll compressors - Is the recip compressor that big of a deal ? The specs show that it is noisier (72 dB vs 70 dB for the scroll unit). Would that be noticable ? or not ?

    So far it is one vote for the American Standard unit ...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    1,701
    both have sound blankets i believe. the scrolls are noisier without the blanket especially on startup, but they quiet down pretty fast if the system is sized right. on higher end systems the noise is negligible.
    "When the people find they can vote themselves money,that will herald the end of the republic" - Benjamin Franklin

    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force;like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action"- George Washington

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    690
    I`m with Robo why the heck are they both those cheap coils? I know he said "aftermarket" but I call em cheap. American Standard has a new High efficiency coil out to match up to the new 20 seer.
    I also like the Charge Assist on the Communicating 16 Seer. They are super quiet too.
    Sorry - yesterday was the deadline for all complaints.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    neither of those units will work properly without the correct indoor unit.

    they are both communicating.

    the AM unit comes with a full aluminum coil. that coil will outlast the whole system
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  9. #9

    Return Air vent adds

    The contractor I selected has also recommended that we go with a few extra return air vents to keep air flow even when doors are closed. Our house was constructed without return vents in each of the upstairs bedrooms. WE have one 20 x 30 in the hall way upstairs. Current unit is 2.5T and replacements are 3T DS VS units. There is a good bit of pressure when closing doors with the AC on currently. I could see how the return vent would help. I actually had those on a newer home I have lived in recently.
    I am thinking the added vents would be a good idea. Any input on this or things to be concerned about ? Does it matter how large these returns are (rec is 14 x 14) ? or where they are located relative to the AC vents ?? any concerns about how these tie back in to the main return ?


    Thanks to all for all the input and advice ....

  10. #10

    More info on vents

    We have 4 bedrooms upstairs and I am considering getting a return air vent in each room.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Yes, add the returns,have them size the ducts and grilles by Manual D, from www.acca.org

    Anything else is just a guess.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    If putting in return vents is accessable to the current ducting system, that is the way to go. However, consideration should be made to the location of the return vents to the location of the supply regesters.

    If you have ceiling supply regesters, especially on an upper floor application, then you should have the returns ducted into a wall cavity through the wall plate which would be accessible from the attic. Then, using the wall space as the return chase, have the return grill installed near the bottom of the wall cavity near the floor. You should not use wall cavities that have electrical boxes in them.

    If your supply regesters are on the floor or low on the wall, then a ceiling return would be best.

    A less expensive alternative, not as good but would greatly help, is to have a pass through return in each of the bedrooms where you would have a high wall grill on one side of a wall between the bedroom and the hall and a low wall grill on the other side of that wall in the same wall cavity. This way, the pressurized air in the bedrooms from the supply regester can "return" to the depressurized hall area (depressurized by the hallway return grill.)
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,793
    Is your current return grille, a return air filter grille.
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    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

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