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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    7

    Question This Lennox or that Trane?

    We need to replace our 20+ year old 5-ton Trane XE800 (the compressor is shot). We've narrowed down to two:

    Lennox XP14-060 with CBX27UH-060 air handler

    Trane 4TWR4060A1 with 4TEE3F65B1 air handler

    We're comfortable with both installers. My understanding is that the Lennox air handler is one speed and the Trane is variable speed. We have a two-story (main floor with full walk-out basement) home.

    Any thoughts as to the pros/cons of these two would be greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dry as a bone Tucson
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    4,029

    comfortable with both installers

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanyb View Post
    We need to replace our 20+ year old 5-ton Trane XE800 (the compressor is shot). We've narrowed down to two:

    Lennox XP14-060 with CBX27UH-060 air handler

    Trane 4TWR4060A1 with 4TEE3F65B1 air handler

    We're comfortable with both installers. My understanding is that the Lennox air handler is one speed and the Trane is variable speed. We have a two-story (main floor with full walk-out basement) home.

    Any thoughts as to the pros/cons of these two would be greatly appreciated!
    Ita all about the installers when your equipment is close to being equal. Is outdoor sound an issue?
    Some Talk, Some Do
    "keeping condensing pressures low and evaporator pressures high"
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    7
    Do you think one unit will be noticably louder than the other? I figure either will be quieter than what we have but even with our current unit, we didn't really hear much from the outdoor unit - it's placed away from the back deck.

    What about the variable speed vs. single speed issue?

    Thanks!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
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    5,520
    If I'm using the ARI directory correctly. The Lennox Heat pump and Air handler shown is eligible for the Federal Tax Credit. ARI# 1292694

    I can't seem to find that Trane match in the ARI directory but nonetheless that are NO Trane 5 Ton matches that meet the Federal tax credit requirements.... especially no twith the XR13 heat pump quoted.

    The Lennox unit wuoted is a higher end unit... and will liekly be quieter, more efficient, and you'll get 30% or $1500 off the installed price.



    It's a hard call, the VS air handler has advantages, but the XR13 is a inferior product compared to the XP14. THe Lennox VS air handler oddly enough won't get you the tax credit. I'm wontering if the CBX27 has a ECM motor, but 4 or 5 fixed speeds??? liek the Carrier Performance Series. Lennox experts???


    You may still be able to have the installer wire up the Lennox with a Visionpro IAQ thermostat and a relay to slow the blwoer speed to increase dehumidification if that's desired.

    Make sure your dutowrk can handle the full 5 Ton airflow (2000CFM). That's the most improtant thing. Undersized ductowkr will cause performance issues and be noisy.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    dayton ohio
    Posts
    25
    the lennox 15 seer signature series is THE QUIETEST unit you can buy if you go by db's. since your quote was for an elite 14 seer im almost positive with lennox if you have an outdoor unit at 14 seer and variable speed indoor with txv you qualify for the tax credit since it equals 15 seer by the books. the vs lennox you need is cbx32mv-060 or for more eff. cbx32mv-068. i would go with the 068

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanyb View Post

    What about the variable speed vs. single speed issue?

    Thanks!!
    In this case, this particular Lennox signel speed air handler is more efficient. Again, it's possible to wire the unit with a humidistat or IAQ or similar thermostst with humidity control to change the fan speed. It jsut takes a more knowledgeable installer. Most of these thermostst have wiring diagrams and instructions how to do it.

    The only other thing a VS air handler has is a continous low speed fan.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    33,396
    The Lennox quote does qualify for the tax credit, the XR14 is only 13 SEER even with the variable speed blower. From that alone I'd rule it out.

    The CBX27 must be an X13 motor, high efficiency but fixed speed. Looks like the only option to get the credit with the XP14-060. Probably mucho $$ more to step up to the VS and XP15 but you can ask.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmaxbury1 View Post
    the lennox 15 seer signature series is THE QUIETEST unit you can buy if you go by db's. since your quote was for an elite 14 seer im almost positive with lennox if you have an outdoor unit at 14 seer and variable speed indoor with txv you qualify for the tax credit since it equals 15 seer by the books. the vs lennox you need is cbx32mv-060 or for more eff. cbx32mv-068. i would go with the 068

    Oddly enough. The XP15 at 5 tons does not qualify.... and using a CB32 does not either. Check the ARI directory. Only 2 XP14 matches even make the cut... and the only difference is one has a TXV and one does not but the ratings are the same. The XP19 only qualifies with an ASPEN coil.. two fo the 3 with a furnace model. and all use a CBX27 or CB27... none appear ot have a VS air handler. They also list a TPA060H4N??? and a 14HPX (package unit???) as qualifying. I'm not sure what models those are.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Probably mucho $$ more to step up to the VS and XP15 but you can ask.
    Big $$$$ because you'll lose the tax credit too.


    OK... now who here things there soemting really screwey in the industry when lower end unit equipment has higher efficincy ratings than equipment that's marketed as higher efficincy??? Is it the rating sand testing system that's screwed up or is it confusing marketing? Were vendors pushing hard ot get high SEER ratings and giving up on HSPF or EER???

    Thsi has probably been discussed before... but hte whole tax credit deal has really shined a spot light on the issue.

    Here I am for example with a "higher end" 2 stage supposedly 16 SEER Heat pump and it doesn't meet the federal guidelines. But hey... at least it's energystar rated

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    dayton ohio
    Posts
    25
    damn this is news to me i cant beleive the cbx32 dosent qualify. i thought they all had to be vs to qualify. i deal lennox and they are the weirdest company ive ever dealt with

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7
    motoguy28 - the Trane unit is an XR14, not an XR13. Do you still think it's an inferior product to the XP14?

    (On another note!) So..... re: VS air handlers: the Lennox salesman says that it operates using several preset profiles at the various speeds. My understanding of the Trane VS is that it somehow 'senses' how it needs to adjust and does it automatically. Am I understanding this correctly?

    I've been confused re: what does and doesn't qualify for the tax credit. Some of it doesn't make sense to me but it is what it is. The Trane dealer has been willing to make some price adjustments in light of not qualifying for the credit.

    (I really appreciate everyone's patience with my questions - I've never had to buy a new unit before so this is all foreign to me!)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lehighton, Pa.
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    178
    The Lennox CBX27uh is a multi speed a/h depending on it's application. If it's hooked up to a single stage compressor, it has two speeds, one for a/c-heat, and a higher speed if there is supplemental electric heat. If it's hooked up to a two stage compressor, it uses three different speeds.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dry as a bone Tucson
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    4,029

    XR13

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanyb View Post
    motoguy28 - the Trane unit is an XR14, not an XR13. Do you still think it's an inferior product to the XP14?

    (On another note!) So..... re: VS air handlers: the Lennox salesman says that it operates using several preset profiles at the various speeds. My understanding of the Trane VS is that it somehow 'senses' how it needs to adjust and does it automatically. Am I understanding this correctly?

    I've been confused re: what does and doesn't qualify for the tax credit. Some of it doesn't make sense to me but it is what it is. The Trane dealer has been willing to make some price adjustments in light of not qualifying for the credit.

    (I really appreciate everyone's patience with my questions - I've never had to buy a new unit before so this is all foreign to me!)
    he's talking about the blower motor model number, the new and improved not GE motor.
    Some Talk, Some Do
    "keeping condensing pressures low and evaporator pressures high"
    Comfort is my goal
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