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04-22-2009, 02:17 PM #1Waiting Email Confirmation
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Looking at Carrier Infinity 17 or 19 SEER in No. Virginia - 2 Units. 1 Unit w/zones?
Putting an addition on an old house. Basement + 2 Stories + walkable attic for future use (sloped hip roof ceilings). Looking at 1 system in basement for finished basement and main floor. 2nd system in attic for upstairs br's and future attic teen room/office/walk up storage.
Will have foamed roof deck )to R-30-35 and air tight) thus attic equip. will be in semi conditioned space. Putting in Solar thermal and p.v. Putting in mod con boiler and radiant under floor heat - staple up and some radiators in old house parts with no exposed joist bays. (am going to post another thread about my radiant system).
Very interested in efficiency and long term savings - I will be in this house 25yrs or more (have owned for 13 yrs already - finally doing addition to make it dream house). We're looking for higher SEER ratings, the energy star tax credit, heat pump and ac (no gas furnace since we'll have hot water radiant primary heat). In addition to the foamed roof deck (old and new) Am foaming the exterior envelope in the addition walls (60% of house walls) to at least 1" to air seal and then finishing with cellulose (to about R-18). All addition windows and doors are low e/argon. Old house windows single with storm, + uninsulated old walls (about 40% of house exterior wall area).
Manual J with very close examination of data input says - just shy of 4 tons for 3 levels + semi conditioned attic.
Here go my questions - thanks in advance for any input!
1. Is Carrier the way to go - I want efficiency - ability to run on low stage and low velocity of air to dehumidify as well as cool. But I also want reliability, longevity, technology, ability to maintain and fix easily, etc.
2. Is Infinity the best control for achieving this - and is it worth it? As an engineer myself I look forward to diving into the control of my complicated systems.
3. I like the thought of 2 - 2 ton units instead of having to run large supply and return ducts from basement to attic - would like to get powder room in the space on the main floor where now the old house system's big duct chase box out runs upstairs.
4. Could I have one outdoor unit that runs 2 indoor air handlers?
5. What is the sweet spot for efficiency vs. value - SEER 17/19/21?
6. Do I want variable speed air handler and 2 stage (or is it multistage) compressor?
6. Do these models look right together?
Infinity 21 SEER a/c condenser - 24ANA124A003
Infinity 19 SEER heat pump - 25HNA924A003
Infinity 17 SEER heat pump - 25HNA624A003
Infinity air handler - FE4ANF002T00
Infinity Control -SYSTXCCUID01-B
Thanks - for any thoughts. I'll be back with more info.
04-22-2009, 02:40 PM #2Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Dallas & Longview, TX
I'll let the pro's address the system matching but:
I have an Infinity 16 (19 and 16 are your choices as of today I think)
All the brands are only as good and reliable as the installation. Don't brand shop, contractor shop. Infinity is great for zoning though if you ever decide to go that route.
Get the variable speed air handler. Amazing comfort and humidity control.
I prefer the 2 - 2 ton systems like you have described.
Can't do a standard system with only one condenser. Can do a mini split.
Sweet spot is the system that gives you the best numbers as it's matched up. You are not going to get the "up to" SEER rating but some can get close as others fall short. The pro's can help you match it up.
Sounds like you are doing your homework and it'll pay off in comfort and efficiency.
04-23-2009, 09:40 AM #3Waiting Email Confirmation
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
The ultimate 'zoning' of having two separate systems seems to make sense to me - even if it is more expensive. Plus I don't have to have the big duct chase running from lower floors to attic - taking up valuable space in my main floor.
I guess I want confirmation that the Carrier Infinity line with Infinity controls is worth the money - and not just marketing hype. I do have a good sub that likes the Carrier.
04-23-2009, 05:33 PM #4
I've been installing and servicing Bryant systems for years... Got the 16SEER Evolution system in my house (Bryant's equivalent to the Infinity)... Mine's a heat pump. I LOVE IT!! You'll be very happy with your Carrier
04-24-2009, 01:59 PM #5Waiting Email Confirmation
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
I'm hoping the higher SEER is worth it and the Carrier Infinity is not just hype. Any other Carrier Infinity enthusiasts/disciples out there?
04-24-2009, 02:32 PM #6
If your in a high humidity area, might want to stay with the 16 SEER Infinity.
It uses the ristol TS compressor. So first stage is a lower capacity. And will give you longer run times then the 19SEER. So should remove humidity better.Contractor locator map
How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?
04-24-2009, 02:49 PM #7
This is what I had installed last July;
Split System: Heat Pump with Remote Outdoor Unit-Air-Source
Outdoor Unit Model Number: 25HNA648A30
combined with Indoor Unit Model Number: CNPV*4821A**
Oil Furnace 58VMR120-20
Variable speed blower.
(EDIT) TP--PRH thermostat
My electric company gives a substantial discount for having a heat pump. Below are my electric bill and usage;
With Heat Pump
02-09-09 1809 KWH $182.21
01-08-09 1927 KWH $188.68
12-08-08 1719 KWH $173.67
Before Heat Pump;
02/08/08 1172 KWH $180.69 (sorry mistype earlier)
01/09/08 1605 KWH $242.78
12/06/07 1571 KWH $248.65
04-24-2009, 03:19 PM #8
Been selling the "Evolution" system and control for about three years now.
As an engineer you will love the control and its capabilities, it's so cool when you plug in the connectors at the air handler and from the outdoor unit the control not only identifies them it even tells you their model and serial #s kinda silly fun! Was also 2007 or 2008 Control Product of the year!
Not much heat pump in Illinois and any thing above 15 seer is an extremely hard sell in this area so the biggest thing I can sell my customers is proven bryant/carrier reliability along with some really amazing comfort, these days I'm finding Comfort Really Sells and out of the 50 or so Evolution systems that Ive sold on that premise Ive had not one complaint and as a matter of fact have had a few surprised customer calls when It came to their overall savings and perceived and even real value!
There's alot of Quality equipment out there these days from various companies but I am entirely sold on the Bryant/Carrier Lineup! My Three year old house will soon be loosing its Lennox G40 construction model to the new 355CAV 3 stage variable.
04-24-2009, 03:21 PM #9Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
You can, in fact, use one outdoor unit with up to eight indoor air handlers. The technology is known as VRV or VRF - Variable Refrigerant Volume/Flow and is what the rest of the world has been using for many years. You may want to investigate systems from Daikin, Mitsubishi or Sanyo. These are state of the art fully modulating variable refrigerant flow heat pump systems. These are not mini-splits, but use some similar technology like inverter compressors and such.
Each indoor unit is a zone with sizes ranging from as low as 7,500 BTU to 48,000 BTU, but each can operate at much lower levels if the load is less (fully modulating). Indoor units can be either ducted or ductless style. The ducted units are quite small - think of a large bread box, so fitting several in the home should not be a problem (I have four indoor units that replaced two conventional systems). You will not need elaborate duct work nor bypass ducting. If you already have duct work you may be able to use much of it and just separate it into several independent duct systems.
Each zone/indoor unit will operate separately from the others and can be turned off completely without causing problems for the other units on the system (can't do that with a conventional zoned system). The outdoor unit fully modulates to meet the load and each indoor unit also fully modulates to meet the load within that zone. The system is designed to essentially run all the time with the level of heat or cool being supplied at the rate the space needs. It allows for a very comfortable space.
The output of the outdoor unit can be significantly more than the nominal rating depending on the number and size of the indoor units. All components within the system are in constant communication. Due to the level of sophistication the system will not run if there is any type of problem (full on-board diagnostics) that would be damaging. With proper installation it is expected to be a 25 year system.
These systems are sold around the world in much more humid climates that we have here. They handle humidity well in that the system is running almost constantly, and thus, constantly extract moisture from the home.
Installations can be quite straight forward with only refrigerant lines and communication cables running to each indoor unit. The entire system is considered a "network". Manufacturer web sites can tell you which companies in your area (many in the Northern Virgina area) have been trained to install and service these systems (systems will not be sold to contractors that have not been trained).
If you have any questions I would be glad to help you.
04-25-2009, 09:46 AM #10Waiting Email Confirmation
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
thanks all - mrubin, jack, mchild, beenthere...
I really appreciate all the thoughtful answers. I'm going to more fully explore the performance series, along with the model no. combos (and tax credit eligibility). I like the thought of the systems running on low to dehumidify while setting the tstat for a little higher temps to save energy.