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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    212

    Another Ice machine ready to go...

    I thought I'd show off the refurbishing we did on another old Manitowoc. This one is a G-1700 Remote, 1991 model. We just cleaned it up and put it in a store a few weeks ago... The only thing I do want to add, it that the correct line set quick connect fittings couldn't be ordered in time, so we had to take the existing ones off (threads were horrible on both) and just solder the lines in.

    This was the first 502 machine that we tested 422a in...worked like a charm! Total cycle time was right around 14 minutes, so it rivals the newer machines on speed.
    Attached Images Attached Images        

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,260
    Looks nice, but it's still used equipment? Is it really worth all the fussing with? Looks like something I might do as a personal project, but not for a customer.
    I r the king of the world!...or at least I get to stand on the roof and look down on the rest of yall

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    212
    To answer simply: Yes, it is worth all the fussing.

    These older machines are the ones that are making us money, and as long as they work and look like new,is there really a huge problem?

    Unfortunately, just because of the sheer amount of equipment we have in the field (over 3,000 individual pieces) we cannot afford to give a brand new machine to every store, every 5-10 years as the manufacturers suggest.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,093

    Wheelbaron...

    You have to understand, M&H leases these machines.

    All the customer cares is if it's clean and makes enough ice.

    Let's see......3000 pieces out there at $xxx/month.....Hmmmm.

    I'm going to start renting machines again

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    212
    I should have explained everything a little better before, sorry about that.

    I made a fairly large mistake: replace that 3,000 with around 2,000.

    I'm really looking at about say:
    600 Ice Machines
    350 Bins (about 250 machines are on drink dispensers)
    400 Remote condensers
    320 inside ice merchandisers
    375 to 400 outside ice merchandisers

    This is just for our largest C-Store account (we have many smaller lease accounts as well). We own all of the equipment, so We can pretty much do what we please as long as it makes ice and looks pretty, as icemeister said.


    Zed

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,260
    Well that's a different duck then, lol

    I used to be the in house guy for a ice co up here and I refurbed a lot of old arse Leer merchandisers..... Winter time I would spend a lot of time with bondo and paint. Don't miss that one bit.
    I r the king of the world!...or at least I get to stand on the roof and look down on the rest of yall

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelbaron View Post
    Well that's a different duck then, lol

    I used to be the in house guy for a ice co up here and I refurbed a lot of old arse Leer merchandisers..... Winter time I would spend a lot of time with bondo and paint. Don't miss that one bit.
    Probably 90% of our merchandisers are Starretts, and almost all of those are the Pre-1992 models with the replaceable panels and trim. I just talked with them the other day trying to order some new Starrett M600's and they informed me that Leer was the only one to be produced from now on (No more Star either).

    When I asked about parts for our older stuff, Panels, doors, Trim, evap-pans, etc... They basically told me: "Tough".


    Quite disheartening...





    Zed

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,093

    Zed...

    You have mentioned a couple of times now that you have been experimenting with DuPont's Isceon MO79 (R422A) as a replacement for HP81 (R402B) in some of your machines. I'm curious to know if you have been using the original Manitowoc HP81 TEV or have you replaced it with a comparable R404A valve...like one for a Q-Series machine of the same capacity?

    I ask this because DuPont's retrofit guideline state that the TEV (or at least the thermostatic element must be changed to one compatible with R404A.

    Also, in your experimentation, have you tried MO29 (R422D) in any machines and if so what did you find?

    Finally, have you experienced any problems with leaking valve seals or gaskets after any of these retrofits like the market guys are seeing?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    212
    You have mentioned a couple of times now that you have been experimenting with DuPont's Isceon MO79 (R422A) as a replacement for HP81 (R402B) in some of your machines. I'm curious to know if you have been using the original Manitowoc HP81 TEV or have you replaced it with a comparable R404A valve...like one for a Q-Series machine of the same capacity?

    We're still using the OEM TEV's on our G models (which were originally 502) We converted from 502 to HP81 after the great Phase-Out, and have been testing the 422a with excellent performance results compared to both the HP81 and the 502.

    I ask this because DuPont's retrofit guideline state that the TEV (or at least the thermostatic element must be changed to one compatible with R404A.

    Also, in your experimentation, have you tried MO29 (R422D) in any machines and if so what did you find?


    We have not had any TEV problems to speak of, and have thus-far have not had to change any out as the guidelines suggest. The only other refrigerant we are experimenting with is R-437a, which we are testing in some R-12 units.We prefer this to MP-39 as it doesn't require an oil change.

    Finally, have you experienced any problems with leaking valve seals or gaskets after any of these retrofits like the market guys are seeing?

    We haven't seen any as of this time (about 4 months into our testing), but we are definately on the lookout for it.


    I can try to answer any of these more in depth if needed.


    Zed

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,093
    Thanks Zed.

    This helps me in my planning for future machine service and retrofits.

    I'm currently set up for the R437A for all my old R12 systems and plan to stock up on MO79 to cover those oldies that were once R502.

    Hopefully, I've bought my last jug of HP81.

    My biggest problem right now is my suppliers aren't up to speed and don't have them on the shelf (or even in their system) as yet, but Baker's is bringing in a private stash for me soon.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    2,742
    hmmmm, anybody interested in a mostly full bottle of 502??? it's been in our shop since the mid 80's and I don't forsee any future use for it...
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Here. I'm right here i tell you!
    Posts
    465
    Is this the M&H Leasing in the texas panhandle? No cities named for a reason. If so I know some guys that used to work for you a long time back.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    212
    The one and the Same!

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