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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Elkton, MD
    Posts
    2
    I have been studying Hallowell/Arcadia heat pumps for some time. Last summer I discussed with one of their engineers about their new hybrid system so we could keep our oil furnace as back up, as it is only a few years old. Their new system was designed to eliminate the electric strip backup and saved about $3K off the initial install price I was given. So we were ready to go and my contractor could not reach them. I then have been trying to call for over a month, sent emails, left messages. I even bounced all over their switchboard with random extensions hoping to find someone that would answer the phone.

    Not reaching anyone I called one of their distributors. After I got switched around I finally talked to someone who knew what was going on. Apparently the financial situation finally came to a head. I had read somewhere they had gotten new financing but that maybe was not quite true. Hallowell now is in talks to be sold to one of the big guys, not sure who. The deal was supposed to be completed a couple of weeks ago but still not there yet. Will be interesting to see if the technology survives or gets shelved.

    The distributor I talked to has sold about 100 units with overall pretty good results and has about $150K of inventory sitting in his warehouse but will not sell a unit now until he knows if Hallowell survives or not.

    As for us I guess we are going to stick with our oil furnace another winter. My wife says no heat pump unless it blows warm/hot air. We also will be waiting to see if Hallowell survives!

  2. #28
    I certainly hope they survive. I've been very happy with my unit, and with the energy savings it has delivered through some frigid winter conditions. I am currently pursuing new construction, and have been talking to some geothermal contractors. When I told one contractor that I had a Hallowell and it still ran off the compressors at 0F, he didn't believe me. I invited him to come to my house during the next cold snap, and look at the subpanel meter for himself!

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,721
    Quote Originally Posted by chrispitude View Post
    When I told one contractor that I had a Hallowell and it still ran off the compressors at 0F, he didn't believe me.
    Unsophisticated contractor to not know there is a lot of heat in air at 0f. Absolute zero and 0f are very different numbers.

    A lot of air source heat pumps are now rated to 10-20 below.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  4. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Unsophisticated contractor to not know there is a lot of heat in air at 0f. Absolute zero and 0f are very different numbers.

    A lot of air source heat pumps are now rated to 10-20 below.
    I don't think he was confusing 0F with absolute zero, I think he was just surprised that an air-source heat pump would run down that far without resorting to aux heat.

    Actually, I also didn't know that other modern air-source heat pumps were rated down to -10F to -20F these days. Could I trouble you to point me at a couple of them? I have a friend with an oil-burner who is interested in switching to a heat pump, and I'd love to pass him the info!

    - Chris

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,721
    Ive seen it in minisplits like mitsubishi. Not sure what resi splits go to, and You run into cop issues, oversizing to cooling load, etc. Then there can be comfort issues. My moms infinity starts to pump some chilly air at 8f. Kept up with the load. We didn't bother to see where it wouldn't, she's got natural gas.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,057
    US made split resi units (mainstream equipment) do not do too well at lower temps... the mini's do a lot better.

    The multi-head mini's seem to be a good alternative if installation will work. There is that problem of the drain line to each head...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #33
    Oh. My buddy's looking for a 4- to 5-ton air-source heat pump that is good below 0F. I'm not aware of anything besides the Hallowell that can do this, but if there are, I'm happy to hear of it!

    - Chris

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,057
    Quote Originally Posted by chrispitude View Post
    Oh. My buddy's looking for a 4- to 5-ton air-source heat pump that is good below 0F. I'm not aware of anything besides the Hallowell that can do this, but if there are, I'm happy to hear of it!

    - Chris
    Look at Daiken... they are the leader in this technology (multi-head mini's). Note that Daiken is pricy... but in a class by itself for quality.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lincoln, Maine
    Posts
    21
    Best thing you can do is look in the AHRI directory and review the capacities and HSPF's of different units. http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridir...ages/home.aspx

    Under residential units you'll want to search through heat pumps and heat pump coils. To narrow it down to air source matched systems narrow the AHRI type to HRCU-A-CB, make sure the model range is set to active, check off single phase power, start looking at 10 for minimum HSPF, and play with mininmum low temp (17F) heating capacity.

    For instance, if you put in 36,000 BTUH and a 10 HSPF, there are no heat pumps that will do this. BUT! If you drop your HSPF to 9.5 there are 313 systems. You can narrow it down a number of ways. If your friend wants lots of capacity there aren't many choices.

    To look at equivalent Mini split units you need to go back to the main menu and search for Variable Speed Mini Split and Mini Split Heat Pumps. You'll note the same problem; (note HMSV-A-CB is an air to air HP in the AHRI 1230-2010 standard for mini splits), 10 HSPF single phase current model and a 36,000 BTU/hour capacity at 17 yields NO units. BUT! If you drop the HSPF to 9.5 you only get 1: a big 5 ton LG unit.

    I've spent a rediculous amound of time reviewing heat pump technologies and the AHRI data and have come to 2 conclusions:

    1. heat pumps can be very accurately modeled for performance using the regression model developed in 2004 by these guys: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publicati...sec-pf-413-04/ (Note: This includes the Acadia...and I should know...I OWN one.) This is the same regression the DOE uses in their generalized heating calculator spreadsheet form their website.

    2. Mini splits, by their inherent nature and purpose, will probably not always be the highest performing units. There are lots of built in losses. In fact...the HSPF's on 95% of the mini split systems available are not as good as those of standard systems. IMO their complexity and performance does not generate a sufficient increase in value in any climate to make a good case for their cost save for ONE situation: commercial applications.

    Disclaimer: At the end of the day the best system will ultimately be defined by the load, the needs of the customer, commodity costs, system installation, and maintenance costs. Here in Maine I think everyone should get a 2 or 3 ton heat pump with at least a 9.5 HSPF to piggy back on top of the oil fired hot water baseboard. This hybrid configuration is a little complex, and a little pricey, but where electricity is 19 cents a kWh and natural gas infrastructure is laughably insufficient, a hybrid unit is the only way to get ahead when burning oil. People would appreciate central air too around here...foreign concept to most of us.

  10. #36

    heat pump

    look at Mitsubishi multi air handler heat pumps,also expense but is good down to -13f at around 80% capacity according to website

  11. #37
    cubeseventy, that is a great link - thank you! I will pass this along to my buddy. I was surprised that Hallowell doesn't show up in the manufacturer list. I was curious to see where it would rank relative to other manufacturers.

    My buddy doesn't want a split system, just a conventional heat pump. He just wanted to know if my Hallowell came in a 5-ton (his current system size), or if there is anything like the Hallowell on the market that comes in a 5-ton. I'll point him to the link to do some research. Thanks again!

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lincoln, Maine
    Posts
    21
    Hallowell WAS in the list. they had their units rated under a DOE approved modified 210/240 standard.

    However...to stay in the list you have to pay annual dues etc.

    There are lots of rumors about Hallowell's current circumstances. I personally have no idea whats going on there. I suspect if the rumors are close to accurate, with slow sales at Hallowell, they elected not to renew the dues (which are not cheap...remember AHRI is sponsored by the big boys. The minimum due fee is big bucks to the little guys, but when you're selling millions of systems its probably not even pennies per unit to the major players.)

    AHRI is not some government sponsored not-for-profit entity that makes the playing field level. I know that's how they see themselves. It's true if you're a big company. Its NOT true if you''re small. Then it's more of a fraternity that you have only a modest chance at a successful rush.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,721
    Has he had an audit? If he weatherizes maybe he can go to a 4 ton, or even a 3 ton. Big comfort, noise, etc gains in downsizing.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

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