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  1. #1

    3-ton Hallowell installed in northeastern PA

    Hi folks,

    Some of you folks may remember me from this thread:

    "Hallowell Acadia - where does it become practical?"

    I am happy to report that the install has been completed and things are up and running smoothly. It's raining right now but I will get some pictures of the outdoor unit as well as the indoor unit and share them here.

    I put the entire Hallowell system on a dedicated subpanel, and put a subpanel consumption meter on it so I can track the Hallowell energy usage down to the dollar. I only got the meter configured properly about a month ago (I'd been running with the wrong current transformer sensing ratio for months!). Here are the numbers I have so far:

    Code:
    date		kWh		kWh-per-30days
    3/10/2009	2371.7124	
    4/4/2009	2704.0432	398.79696
    4/11/2009	2790.331	369.8048571
    The third column takes the current reading and the previous reading, and extrapolates the usage to a 30-day period. Right now the outdoor temperatures are not very cold, and I'm looking at a usage rate of about 375 kWh per 30 days. We have the air handler fan set to run 24/7. As I obtain more data points, I'll update my spreadsheet with pretty graphs and such and share the complete data set here. We also had an Aprilaire 5000 EAC installed, but kept it on a different circuit as not to impact the energy usage measurements.

    I'm located in northeastern PA, in zip code 18322. If you are interested in seeing a Hallowell in operation, you are welcome to contact me privately to have a look.

    Some miscellaneous observations:

    • The system operates at a high pressure, and the lineset did sing in my installation. The lineset was originally attached directly to the basement ceiling with brackets, but this noise transmitted right up through the floor. We then suspended the lineset with plastic strapping, and the lineset was no longer audible from the living area.
    • In operation, the unit is quieter than what I was figuring for its size.
    • Our neighbors also have a heat pump (unknown brand). In winter conditions, their heatpump kicked into defrost much more frequently than the Hallowell did.
    • I think the 3-ton Hallowell unit may still be a tad oversized for my application (1800sqft split-level). The unit always ran in stage 1, even when it was -2F outside. My understanding is that for most efficient operation, you want it always running in stage 1 and occasionally in stage 2? I'm curious to see how it cools in summer.
    • The programmable thermostat has a nice feature where if the programming has a temperature change, it will start ramping up/down 15 minutes early per 1 degree of change. This allows the unit to stay in stage 1 operation even when the scheduled temperature changes by several degrees.
    • The stage 1 vent outlet temperatures are somewhat warm to the feel. When I force it to stage 2 (both compressors) by raising the temperature several degrees, I swear it's getting up near as warm as what the oil-burner used to kick out.
    • During a defrost cycle, the system can be installed to run either one heat strip (5kW) or two (10kW). We ran both strips to avoid the chilly willies, and it works out pretty nice. With only one heat strip, the air coming out of the vents was a little too cold for our taste.


    If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I'm just a homeowner and not a contractor, but I am happy to do what I can to share with this community.

    - Chris

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    The theremostst Acadia uses, I believe is a rebadged White Rodgers 1F95. Pretty nice. Similar to the IAQ but with maybe slightly less control over some of the advanced features.... but there are a few things I liked better looking a the specs.

    Definitely impressive that it can operate at -5F without aux. heat... or using 2nd stage. I agree however, that it may be oversized. But one advantage of being oversized, I think may be the ability to use some setbacks. My unit (Dual fuel set-up) is oversized slightly with a higher economic balance point than thermal balance point, so I can use setbacks all winter at any temprature.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,940
    Fantastic information chrispitude. It is very generous of you to make your system available for others to judge by. Being one of the wholesale salesmen that distributes this product in your general area, I just may take you up on your offer. Thanks.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,697
    to make it a bit more "scientific", give actual vent temperatures using a thermometer rather than;

    "...too cold for our taste."

    or

    "...# The stage 1 vent outlet temperatures are somewhat warm to the feel. When I force it to stage 2 (both compressors) by raising the temperature several degrees, I swear it's getting up near as warm as what the oil-burner used to kick out."

    just my $.02

  5. #5

    How is the Hallowell running

    Chris,
    I appreciate all the info you have posted on the Hallowell. I have been looking at the system for some time. I was wondering how it has been running through the summer months especially with the AC.
    I live in Southeast CT. Currently I have an oil hot air system that I would love to replace. My only concern is the reliability of the Hallowell and what people are experiencing in the real world with the system. I look forward to your response.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    20
    My expereince....
    Installed Oct 08. worked great all winter and cost as forcecasted. Better yet I haved run this unit agressively this summer....cost about half as what my Carrier Infinity did. No issues to report.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,940
    Just to correct a few minor errors in perception of what this Acadia system is doing. The primary compressor is a two stage compressor that is set to kick in when the outdoor temps drop below 25 degrees. So, when the t-stat is turned up a notch and warmer air is felt, it is from the second stage of the primary compressor kicking in, not from the booster compressor turning on.

    Even though this system is only rated at 14 SEER in the cooling mode, since it is a two stage cooling system, you still get the benefit of superb dehumidification.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,940
    Hallowell is also in the 7th of seven processes to have the Acadia heat pump qualify for federal tax credits. This should make these systems more competitive then geothermal systems are at the moment.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #9
    Hi folks,

    I have some more data to report. As a reminder, I had the unit installed on a dedicated subpanel with an energy meter so I could track the energy costs. The downside is, I have to remember to go downstairs every so often and write down the cumulative kWh, which I then record in a spreadsheet. Unfortunately, this means my datapoints are somewhat sporadic.

    Here is the data so far:

    Code:
    date	kWh	cost/month
    3/10/2009	2372	
    4/4/2009	2704	$49.45
    4/23/2009	2910	$40.28
    5/22/2009	3023	$14.54
    6/27/2009	3205	$18.82
    7/15/2009	3359	$31.69
    7/28/2009	3508	$42.76
    8/18/2009	3743	$41.71
    8/29/2009	3859	$39.23
    10/9/2009	3980	$10.95
    10/20/2009	4043	$21.06
    11/21/2009	4177	$15.67
    12/9/2009	4340	$33.62
    12/18/2009	4513	$71.67
    1/2/2010	4882	$91.31
    1/11/2010	5135	$104.73
    1/24/2010	5378	$69.57
    2/8/2010	5697	$79.06
    2/20/2010	5926	$70.93
    3/9/2010	6203	$60.78
    3/15/2010	6259	$34.46
    3/22/2010	6282	$12.41
    5/2/2010	6450	$15.24
    5/23/2010	6543	$16.42
    6/13/2010	6737	$34.40
    6/27/2010	6903	$44.10
    7/5/2010	6988	$39.33
    7/13/2010	7153	$76.92
    The rightmost column needs some explaining. It is the amount of energy consumed between the current data point and the previous data point, then extrapolated out to 30 days, then converted to a dollar cost (at 12.4cents per kWh). So, even if you see an isolated high number in that column, it didn't actually cost me that amount. It is a dollar-rate (dollars-per-30-days), not a dollar-amount. To see the cost for any span of time, you do NOT add up all the dollar costs shown! You need to subtract the difference in kWh, then multiply by 0.124. For example, the total air condition cost from May 2 to July 13 is

    (7153-6450)*0.124 == $87

    I hope I explained that decently.

    And again, restating some important factors:

    • small house - 1800sqft split-level ranch
    • vaulted ceiling in combined 23x23 living room/dining room/kitchen area (not a lot of insulation between hot roof and living space)
    • triple-pane windows
    • spray foam in walls and ceilings
    • heat set to 65F in winter, A/C set to 66F in summer


    First, let me say that I am very happy with the heating and cooling costs given our set point.

    The last datapoint is an interesting one. My in-laws were up for the entire week. My wife and I both took off for that week to spend time with them. This week also coincided with the heat wave in the Northeast - the temps were in the high 90s for the entire week. With four people taking showers, three dogs running around, lots of lights on pretty much all the time, and oven/stovetop cooking away, TV running pretty much on all the time, there was a lot of internal heat being generated within the house. During this week, the Acadia ran at about an 80% duty cycle at stage 1. (In stage 1, the A/C pulls 1600 watts.) The only time I saw it go into stage 2 was when I'd temporarily lower the set point by 1 degree because we just came inside from somewhere and we were all hot. It would run for stage 1 for awhile and not make the desired progress, then kick into stage 2. Let me tell you, in stage 2, that thing isn't messing around. It really cranks the cold air out of the vents, and gets to the set point in short order despite the outside heat. (In stage 2, the A/C draws 2700 watts.)

    The lineset on the Acadia sings pretty good. My installer tells me it's because they run at such high pressures. Oddly, in stage 2 A/C, it seems to quiet down a bit. I had some issues with lineset noise being transmitted into the kitchen, as it's hung right off those floor joists in the basement. We tried re-hanging it with wide horizontal runs of plastic plumber's tape. That helped to a degree, but the tape was wrapped tightly around the lineset and was stretched too taut between the joists. Last week I rehung it with some foam padding around the lineset, then the pipe tape around that, and let it hang a little bit more loosely. Presto, no more noise, just the expected hum of the outdoor unit heard through the exterior wall (it's right outside our kitchen window).

    I did have to have the outdoor unit's fan motor replaced under warranty, as it got noisy over this past winter. I also had to replace the outdoor unit's control board, as the unit would no longer go into defrost. Hallowell provided the parts for free, but I had to pay my installer the labor (about $170).

    If you compute my total heating costs from Oct 9 to May 2, you'll see that it comes out to $306 for the entire season - not bad at all. It never once went to aux heat for normal heating, not even when outdoor temperatures went below zero. The unit can be configured to pull 5kW or 10kW resistive heat during defrost. We have it set to pull 10kW, just to keep the duct outlet temperatures comfy during defrost.

    Oh yeah, and I got my tax credit for it. Woohoo!

    If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

    - Chris

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    382
    HVACDIST carry this line, I can see that the condensing unit cost alone is about 4-5 times of a regular HP, how do we justify that? How many years will it take to recover the initial higher cost through electricity savings?

    Of course this is environment friendly, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrispitude View Post
    Hi folks,

    I have some more data to report. As a reminder, I had the unit installed on a dedicated subpanel with an energy meter so I could track the energy costs. The downside is, I have to remember to go downstairs every so often and write down the cumulative kWh, which I then record in a spreadsheet. Unfortunately, this means my datapoints are somewhat sporadic.

    Here is the data so far:

    Code:
    date	kWh	cost/month
    3/10/2009	2372	
    4/4/2009	2704	$49.45
    4/23/2009	2910	$40.28
    5/22/2009	3023	$14.54
    6/27/2009	3205	$18.82
    7/15/2009	3359	$31.69
    7/28/2009	3508	$42.76
    8/18/2009	3743	$41.71
    8/29/2009	3859	$39.23
    10/9/2009	3980	$10.95
    10/20/2009	4043	$21.06
    11/21/2009	4177	$15.67
    12/9/2009	4340	$33.62
    12/18/2009	4513	$71.67
    1/2/2010	4882	$91.31
    1/11/2010	5135	$104.73
    1/24/2010	5378	$69.57
    2/8/2010	5697	$79.06
    2/20/2010	5926	$70.93
    3/9/2010	6203	$60.78
    3/15/2010	6259	$34.46
    3/22/2010	6282	$12.41
    5/2/2010	6450	$15.24
    5/23/2010	6543	$16.42
    6/13/2010	6737	$34.40
    6/27/2010	6903	$44.10
    7/5/2010	6988	$39.33
    7/13/2010	7153	$76.92
    The rightmost column needs some explaining. It is the amount of energy consumed between the current data point and the previous data point, then extrapolated out to 30 days, then converted to a dollar cost (at 12.4cents per kWh). So, even if you see an isolated high number in that column, it didn't actually cost me that amount. It is a dollar-rate (dollars-per-30-days), not a dollar-amount. To see the cost for any span of time, you do NOT add up all the dollar costs shown! You need to subtract the difference in kWh, then multiply by 0.124. For example, the total air condition cost from May 2 to July 13 is

    (7153-6450)*0.124 == $87

    I hope I explained that decently.

    And again, restating some important factors:

    • small house - 1800sqft split-level ranch
    • vaulted ceiling in combined 23x23 living room/dining room/kitchen area (not a lot of insulation between hot roof and living space)
    • triple-pane windows
    • spray foam in walls and ceilings
    • heat set to 65F in winter, A/C set to 66F in summer


    First, let me say that I am very happy with the heating and cooling costs given our set point.

    The last datapoint is an interesting one. My in-laws were up for the entire week. My wife and I both took off for that week to spend time with them. This week also coincided with the heat wave in the Northeast - the temps were in the high 90s for the entire week. With four people taking showers, three dogs running around, lots of lights on pretty much all the time, and oven/stovetop cooking away, TV running pretty much on all the time, there was a lot of internal heat being generated within the house. During this week, the Acadia ran at about an 80% duty cycle at stage 1. (In stage 1, the A/C pulls 1600 watts.) The only time I saw it go into stage 2 was when I'd temporarily lower the set point by 1 degree because we just came inside from somewhere and we were all hot. It would run for stage 1 for awhile and not make the desired progress, then kick into stage 2. Let me tell you, in stage 2, that thing isn't messing around. It really cranks the cold air out of the vents, and gets to the set point in short order despite the outside heat. (In stage 2, the A/C draws 2700 watts.)

    The lineset on the Acadia sings pretty good. My installer tells me it's because they run at such high pressures. Oddly, in stage 2 A/C, it seems to quiet down a bit. I had some issues with lineset noise being transmitted into the kitchen, as it's hung right off those floor joists in the basement. We tried re-hanging it with wide horizontal runs of plastic plumber's tape. That helped to a degree, but the tape was wrapped tightly around the lineset and was stretched too taut between the joists. Last week I rehung it with some foam padding around the lineset, then the pipe tape around that, and let it hang a little bit more loosely. Presto, no more noise, just the expected hum of the outdoor unit heard through the exterior wall (it's right outside our kitchen window).

    I did have to have the outdoor unit's fan motor replaced under warranty, as it got noisy over this past winter. I also had to replace the outdoor unit's control board, as the unit would no longer go into defrost. Hallowell provided the parts for free, but I had to pay my installer the labor (about $170).

    If you compute my total heating costs from Oct 9 to May 2, you'll see that it comes out to $306 for the entire season - not bad at all. It never once went to aux heat for normal heating, not even when outdoor temperatures went below zero. The unit can be configured to pull 5kW or 10kW resistive heat during defrost. We have it set to pull 10kW, just to keep the duct outlet temperatures comfy during defrost.

    Oh yeah, and I got my tax credit for it. Woohoo!

    If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

    - Chris

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by seanddd View Post
    HVACDIST carry this line, I can see that the condensing unit cost alone is about 4-5 times of a regular HP, how do we justify that? How many years will it take to recover the initial higher cost through electricity savings?

    Of course this is environment friendly, for sure.
    I'm not sure which numbers you are looking at, but when I shopped around a couple years ago, there was only about a 30% premium on the total installed cost to go with an Acadia versus a run-of-the-mill "high efficiency" heat pump.

    - Chris

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    382
    I may be looking at the wrong price which could be the listing price, I guess Acadia quipment needs to be quoted for authorized installer only.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrispitude View Post
    I'm not sure which numbers you are looking at, but when I shopped around a couple years ago, there was only about a 30% premium on the total installed cost to go with an Acadia versus a run-of-the-mill "high efficiency" heat pump.

    - Chris

  13. #13
    this is awesome information!

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