Is a high efficiency gas fireplace possible?

[jechow]

I was just wonder if it is technically possible to have a 90+ % efficient gas fireplace just like a gas furnace?

Thanks

[crazymonk]

It would look a lot different. I would guess you would need an inducer and certainly a secondary heat exchanger, Collector box, Condensate pump.

I can see this being "theoreticaly" possible. I think it is a great idea. If you want 100% efficiancy just don't vent it outside. ;-)

[jpb2]

Empire Mantis series

[logdoc_rob]

Tell me more about this unit.....me likey !!!!!

[jpb2]

Only sold a few. Apply for pro status I will discuss further. Thanks

[jtp10181]

http://www.empirecomfort.com/EMPIREC...ces/Mantis.asp
http://www.gas-space-heater.com/empire-mantis.html

IMO pretty damned ugly, but it is 93% efficient supposedly.

[pacnw]

Only sold a few. Apply for pro status I will discuss further. Thanks

I have pro status, let's discuss them.

thanks

[crazymonk]

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.

Are we taking our selves too seriously?

[crazymonk]

Yea, now I remember.

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.

Are we taking our selves too seriously?

[SeattlePioneer]

I agree with crazymonk. It's just a matter of arranging to safely condense the water out of the combustion gasses. Probably not especially worthwhile for appliances usually of limited BTU input and limited use per year, so California will probably mandate in the next year or two.



More likely (in my view) is that manufacturers will get away from the idea that a gas fireplace should look like smouldering logs. Do away with that idea and hire some artists to come up with some novel and attractive flame patterns that have nothing to do with smoldering logs.

[crazymonk]

of a fire. Oh yea and by the way they will put one of those cadet heaters behind it add the final use.... HEAT. This is coming, I fear

Hey. so where is the school to fix them thar flat TV's anyways?

[firebug1]

The market already has a high eff. gas fireplace in fact it's 100%. Why reinvent the wheel. It's called vent free. personally I don't like them.

[Matt528]

90+ is possible. Usually I see them as vent free or ventless stoves and fireplaces. They have some sizing, moisture, and health issues so they are not always the best thing for the situation. I have sold some, but mostly concentrate on vented products.

Naploleon had some vented products touting 86-88% efficiencies. Frankly, they didn't seem to perform any better than some other brands we had in our store that advertised far lower efficiences. That's not to say that they and many other brands don't have some great heaters - they do. But I don't put my faith in just an efficiency number.

I'd like to say that fireplace efficiency tests were not easily compromised, but more and more I trust them less as a number. I think people need to take a more comprehensive approach in looking at brands and models than just looking at efficiency percentages. By that broader approach I mean BTU input, all 3 efficiency standards, brand, warranty, glass type, understanding how efficiency numbers are arrived at and how they can be skewed, etc..

You can get pretty technical if you want, but nothing beats sitting in a home or a showroom with burning displays and sitting by one when you turn it on. For my own test, I like to find the fireplace cold, flip it on, and sit and watch it like it was in my own home. I time how long it takes to heat the area it might go in. I turn the blower on full when I turn it on to hear how loud it is, see how long it takes to come on, and get an idea of it's performance. I check out the flame to see if I like it. I do all of this before I ever start looking at the trims (or frosting). Hopefully in doing this I fall in love with something that fits the room and the budget - so those things have to be in the back of my mind at least as I start looking.

Very generally - if you want performance, look for something with 28,000 BTU's or better. That stat alone will often put you into the midrange category of product in any brand. High 70's to mid 80's for efficiency numbers are generally above average for most vented fireplaces. Anything higher will either be exceptional, inflated, or ventless (conditional use).

[jerryd_2008]

I was just wonder if it is technically possible to have a 90+ % efficient gas fireplace just like a gas furnace?

Thanks

Just curious. Why is 90+ any better than a vented 85%? Are you going to heat the house with it most of the time?

Put in an 85% effiecient, I believe, 38,000 Btu Heat and Glo a month or so ago. 3.5 day outage due to ice storm finally pushed us over the edge. But the appearance and convenience of turning it on, enjoying and turning it off without all of the wood tasks is what we wanted.

[firebug1]

The only way you can get 90+% from a vented gas burning fireplace would be to have a secondary heat exchanger in it and a water collection and disposal system on it. Also it would need to be power vented. I would imagine the price would be so high no one would buy it and it would probably be rather noisy.

[Jack2007]

The market already has a high eff. gas fireplace in fact it's 100%. Why reinvent the wheel. It's called vent free. personally I don't like them.

Algore will out-law these soon, too much CO2.

.

[logdoc_rob]

He will also tax cow farts and will have tax collectors outside of Taco Bells if he can get the chosen one to deliver it to the sheeple.

[logdoc_rob]

CO2 is a by-product of burning methane gas and oxygen. You get more CO2 with more fuel/air burned. If you select the fireplace with the highest efficiency, you get more heat in your home per unit of CO2 produced.

You also get water vapor as well........will that cause the oceans to rise too. :-)

[motoguy128]

I think there's a furnace made by Empire called the "Mantis" that has a secondary heat exchanger. It then usess the condensate to help huidify the air in the home.... a neat idea. I suspect it costs as much or more than a condensing furnace.

I think it was posted on here before.

I agree, the extra 10% efficiency probably isn't worth the added cost unless you live far north, and are using it as a primary heat source for the home most of the year. I could see using it for a retrofit to an older home that was once primarily heated by wood fireplaces.

[amd]

Fireplaces are for show; if you want high efficiency heat, install a real furnace. (or better yet a heatpump if you're in a mild climate)