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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    735

    2003 Carrier 50AK Package Unit Controls

    I have a customer that has a few Carrier 50AK 50 ton units that were built in 2003. These do not have any type of Carrier controller on them. We are using a JCI UNT to control these and are resetting the supply air temperature based on the return air temp and then increasing or decreasing the temp through a reset board in the unit that accepts a 4-20mA signal. There is a microprocessor board on the unit that seems to control everything internal to the unit (unloaders, economizer etc.). This board drives us nuts because it's like it has a "mind of it's own" and we have no access to it. When the units were first installed, a guy from the Carrier rep came by a few times and had some DOS based software on a calculator/keyboard "minicomputer". He indicated that he was one of the only people that had that software. He did saw we could buy it but we never did.

    Can someone tell me what we can to in order to move into the "90's" let alone the millennium with these units. I would like to find a way to put something on these so we gather the data out of the units so we know what's going on. It does appear to have a plug in CCN connection.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    379
    That is the main base board you are talking about. I believe that there are com terminals on the board, but it's been awhile since I've actually looked at one. The jack you are referring to is to connect carrier's service tool software to reconfigure setpoints in the board.

    Economizer control on those units are always an issue. I would suggest scrapping the carrier board all together and putting your own controls on the units. Not the cheapest thing to do, but in the long run, your customer will thank you for it.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2007
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    735
    I can do my own controls, but there are unloaders etc. on the board which I don;t want to get into. We recently did some CCN o BACnet translator cards with the newer units with the Comfortlink controllers and that turned out okay. I wonder if I can use these translators on these boards.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    379
    If I'm not mistaken, the communication terminals on the MBB's (if they exist) should be comfortlink protocol (rs-485). If I get time this weekend, I'll dig out my CCN manuals and comfort link manuals for the RTU's that have been collecting dust in my garage and look it up for you.

  5. #5
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    Jan 2007
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    That would be great. I think you are correct, plus we have Service Tool V so we'll see what we can do.

    Are you on the east coast or west?

  6. #6
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    Jan 2008
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    That particular RTU has what is called a Conquest board it uses the standard CCN operation. I don`t think there is any way that it can be integrated like the comfortlink board can.It has the ability to be controlled like a conventional 2 stage unit. The VFD is used is stand alone . I would put a controller without gutting it and run it like a conventional stat. That`s the best I can think of. This 50AK are not the 50AK`s you like i`m sure simed.

    Also needed to add what do you mean when you said the unit has a mind of it`s own?
    Last edited by Dallas Duster; 03-19-2009 at 07:28 PM.
    UA 100

    It takes three people to do anything around here. Two do the work, one explains to the crowd of people who showed up when they seen smoke and flames.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2007
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    Well, we managed to get into the Carrier board today and were able to see the real time info via Service Tool V and connecting to the three terminals for the CCN on the board in question.

    We spoke to the controls tech support line and they felt that of we can gain access with the Service tool, then we should be able to gain access with the translator cards.

    Any thoughts?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by simsd View Post
    Well, we managed to get into the Carrier board today and were able to see the real time info via Service Tool V and connecting to the three terminals for the CCN on the board in question.

    We spoke to the controls tech support line and they felt that of we can gain access with the Service tool, then we should be able to gain access with the translator cards.

    Any thoughts?
    I just have never seen anybody translator card on a conquest board it might very well be possible. Let me know what you find out?
    UA 100

    It takes three people to do anything around here. Two do the work, one explains to the crowd of people who showed up when they seen smoke and flames.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    379
    If you can access the MBB with service tool through the three comm terminals then you should be fine to use the translators. It would set up pretty similar to setting up a chiller.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    9,564
    Well, I agree with noskilltech on the Custer rooftop (I mean Conquest- little slip there) I'd rip on this one. What I don't remember is the unloaders being electric. No matter, because if they are electric then they are simply for staging I'm thinking. If so, wiring is not a big deal. Maybe you can even simplify and go with their mechanical unloaders.

    I think I've already pitched all my Carrier literature with all the notes.... The only thing I think I have left is a manual(s) I have together with the 4-5 generations of VVT. I'll check.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Well, I agree with noskilltech on the Custer rooftop (I mean Conquest- little slip there) I'd rip on this one. What I don't remember is the unloaders being electric. No matter, because if they are electric then they are simply for staging I'm thinking. If so, wiring is not a big deal. Maybe you can even simplify and go with their mechanical unloaders.

    I think I've already pitched all my Carrier literature with all the notes.... The only thing I think I have left is a manual(s) I have together with the 4-5 generations of VVT. I'll check.
    Why don`t you answer Freddy`s question and stop ripping on everybody elses product!!
    UA 100

    It takes three people to do anything around here. Two do the work, one explains to the crowd of people who showed up when they seen smoke and flames.

  12. #12
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    May 2002
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    9,564
    Good Listener- If you knew this particular RTU you would know I'm being most generous with the commentary. Besides I'm agreeing with somebody else and don't consider it a complete rip as I'm not telling the guy to remove the equipment. Personally, I really like those 06 series compressors. Carrier used to have this G model (I think) with the oval heads that was soooo quiet running. Beautiful design I think. And, on this RTU, the compressors are the only good thing about it.

    It is plagued by OA issues, air leaks, a VFD in the blower section air stream, burner issues, bad condenser design and more screws in the RTU than the average sheet metal duct project. It's not Carrier's finest effort by far which is why naming it Conquest befits the irony of calling it a Custer rooftop. It's really more like the last stand... no victory there.

    Anyway, I've answered Freddy's rants and you can see how completely OFF target he is. I guess the contrast is that I know what I'm talking about. Freddy didn't.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Good Listener- If you knew this particular RTU you would know I'm being most generous with the commentary. Besides I'm agreeing with somebody else and don't consider it a complete rip as I'm not telling the guy to remove the equipment. Personally, I really like those 06 series compressors. Carrier used to have this G model (I think) with the oval heads that was soooo quiet running. Beautiful design I think. And, on this RTU, the compressors are the only good thing about it.

    It is plagued by OA issues, air leaks, a VFD in the blower section air stream, burner issues, bad condenser design and more screws in the RTU than the average sheet metal duct project. It's not Carrier's finest effort by far which is why naming it Conquest befits the irony of calling it a Custer rooftop. It's really more like the last stand... no victory there.

    Anyway, I've answered Freddy's rants and you can see how completely OFF target he is. I guess the contrast is that I know what I'm talking about. Freddy didn't.
    I know alot about this RTU , outside air issues not sure what your talking about there explain more. Vfd in the blower section keep explaining, have worked on Tranes before where the drive was in the return and full of dust bunnies. Oh reciprocating comressors are kinda on their way out technology has to move on so you have to move with it.,so please don`t cry about those Carlyles they are good but have to be retired at some point. You know the Conquest works alot better without external controls hooked up to it. FYI I was on Freddy`s side . It always bothers me when someone kinda brags about "knowing what they are talking about" ....RED Flags raised. Maybe you can build a better unit I give you permission to do so.
    UA 100

    It takes three people to do anything around here. Two do the work, one explains to the crowd of people who showed up when they seen smoke and flames.

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