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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,991
    No I did not miss that it was a new install, yes you can weigh the charge in, but my point was maybe there was some reason he could not weigh it in, not just "get someone else"

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dutchess County, NY
    Posts
    152
    I said "get someone else" because he already has doubt about this guy otherwise he would not have come here. He would be in his house doing something besides worrying if his heatpump is installed correctly or thinking about the integrity of his contractor. He came to this site looking for advice and I gave him my opinion as did many. If his contractor is already giving him BS why wait for more?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,613
    Those that weigh in charge: do you remove the factory charge and start from scratch? Or do you trust that the factory charge is right to the ounce and weigh in the additional based on line length? Personally I don't trust the factory charge in the least

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,793
    Just weigh in the additional.

    Once in a while get bit on the factory charge not being what teh plate says it is.
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  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,340
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Those that weigh in charge: do you remove the factory charge and start from scratch? Or do you trust that the factory charge is right to the ounce and weigh in the additional based on line length? Personally I don't trust the factory charge in the least
    I trust the factory charge, then weigh in what is needed. Compare the pressure to the manufactures heating pressure charts. Our included one year free maintanance, will check the subcooling and/or superheat come warmer weather.

    We haven't found any units shorting on factory charge. We install Bryant, Lennox, and Trane.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    625
    My understanding of Air to Air heatpumps was the amount of refrigerant needed to heat was only 3/4 of the actual charge and 100% needed in the cooling mode. Any thoughts ? dan

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    115
    Sorry to mislead everyone on this forum as this was not a new system install.

    My system had a leak and the HVAC specialist came out to address the leak. Let me explain what I observed. I watched him troubleshoot the entire system:

    1. He started by sucking all of the freon into the compressor by turning on the heat pump to AC mode.
    2. Filled the line with nitrogen and the pressure dropped.
    3. Couldn't find the leak.
    4. Checked the solder points on the line with the soapy water.
    5. Check the HP with soapy water.
    6. Check the A-coil and TXV with soapy water.
    7. He cut the line and soldered the gas and liquid line shut and refilled the line with nitrogen. It was not the line.
    8. He filled the A-Coil with nitrogen and determined it was at the A-coil but it was funny that we could not hear the leak.
    9. Through the process of elimination he diagnoses the leak to the TXV connection to the A-coil.
    10. Replaces the TXV and then setups the system again.
    11. Goes to the heat pump and puts on his gauges and determines more charge is required.
    12. To get the R410 out, he is inverted the bottle and was shaking the inverted bottle.
    13. He then tells me he needs to come back when it is >50F.

    What do the PRO's on this forum think about his ability to trouble shoot the source of the leak and should he have been able to recharge the system accurately during cold weather after repairing a leak in my system?

    Thanks

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,793
    60/50 chance, and electronic leak detector woul have found the leak without isolation the componets.
    So, he did right by isolation.

    Wouldn't be the first time a fitting went bad during service and prevented recharging.

    With all the time sent there.

    I'd of recovered, and weighed it back in by by the data plate, and line length.

    If I wasn't sure it was close enough for cooling season, I'd tell you to use it for heat, but it needs rechecked in the summer.

    Around here. We'd get shot if we left someone with out their heat pump until it warmed back up.

    And there are other ways to charge a heat pump, in the winter..
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  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Eastern Missouri
    Posts
    472
    Looks to me that he did a decent job from what you have described. I have seen people charge a heat pump in cold weather and not come back to check the charge in warm weather before and the customer calls me because his low side line is covered in ice. So, I think he did right by you no matter the other opinions here about the weighing in the charge or other means of cold weather charging.


    Any way, I think you did ok with this guy as long as he keeps his promise to come back and does not charge you again to do so.
    Last edited by beenthere; 03-24-2009 at 06:06 AM. Reason: Removed DIY info

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,687
    Shamoke, nobody mentioned the things you just did, because it is not a DIY site. A little bit too much information in the wrong hands is dangerous.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Eastern Missouri
    Posts
    472
    Quote Originally Posted by james80031 View Post
    Shamoke, nobody mentioned the things you just did, because it is not a DIY site. A little bit too much information in the wrong hands is dangerous.
    Sorry

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    5,576
    Quote Originally Posted by jechow View Post
    Sorry to mislead everyone on this forum as this was not a new system install.

    My system had a leak and the HVAC specialist came out to address the leak. Let me explain what I observed. I watched him troubleshoot the entire system:

    1. He started by sucking all of the freon into the compressor by turning on the heat pump to AC mode.
    2. Filled the line with nitrogen and the pressure dropped.
    3. Couldn't find the leak.
    4. Checked the solder points on the line with the soapy water.
    5. Check the HP with soapy water.
    6. Check the A-coil and TXV with soapy water.
    7. He cut the line and soldered the gas and liquid line shut and refilled the line with nitrogen. It was not the line.
    8. He filled the A-Coil with nitrogen and determined it was at the A-coil but it was funny that we could not hear the leak.
    9. Through the process of elimination he diagnoses the leak to the TXV connection to the A-coil.
    10. Replaces the TXV and then setups the system again.
    11. Goes to the heat pump and puts on his gauges and determines more charge is required.
    12. To get the R410 out, he is inverted the bottle and was shaking the inverted bottle.
    13. He then tells me he needs to come back when it is >50F.

    What do the PRO's on this forum think about his ability to trouble shoot the source of the leak and should he have been able to recharge the system accurately during cold weather after repairing a leak in my system?

    Thanks
    Weighing in the charge would have meant recovering the existing "low" charge, at much expense to you to remove, and then to replace it again. He was trying to top it off for you, much much cheaper, and all that is necessary in a case like this. However it was too cold to do properly, he was correct. There are tricks that a tech can do to simulate a warmer ambient, but I can't expect another tech to actually use those methods because there is no law against just coming back when its warmer, which BTW is exactly what Carrier says to do.

    I think you should take him at his word. If he had been a hack he'd have just dumped a bunch of refrigerant in and said "there you go".

    It also depends upon other factors. Was a 70 plus day expected in the near future, or were you going to be left on strip heat for a month or better. Even for a month, it is unlikely that your energy bill would have gone up to an amount in excess of the cost to replace the entire charge. The stuff isn't cheap. As far as I know, winter is over. It was 79 here yesterday. I have two heat pumps to go back and trim the charge on myself. I hope the customers don't read some of the replies and decide I did them wrong by coming back to make sure the charge was dead on.

    Was it possible to leave the system charged "close enough". Definitely yes. But some techs aren't confident enough to try any "tricks", and those techs shouldn't try them. If they're conciencious enough not to take chances, then that's a point in thier favor. Again, weighing in the charge is always an option, but still requires rechecking when it gets above 70 out. And again, whether he did the right thing depends upon the weather forecast in your area, and for all we know the tag was faded so that he didn't know what the factory charge by weight was. Too many missing pieces of information to draw any hard conclusions in this case. Some of the other replies might be accurate, but they require some assumptions that aren't justified here. JMTCW.
    Last edited by hvacrmedic; 03-24-2009 at 07:50 AM.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,687
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamoke View Post
    Sorry
    Hey, no problem. 3 more posts, and you can apply for the pro section.

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