ReplyDid they by chance check for holes in the heat exchanger while they were working on your unit?
Regular Guest
Not really, I own a rental house that is still doing fine with its original 1948 floor heater. The regulator just went out after replacing it, its good for another 61 years.Originally Posted by MYLEVL
Engineered obsolescence wasnt required back then for job security.
Brian
Professional Member
Did they by chance check for holes in the heat exchanger while they were working on your unit?
Quickly, I must hurry, for there go my people and I am their leader!
Regular Guest
Well, the guy came back yesterday with the boss. They fiddled around and determined that it was the transformer so they left to go get one. They came back about an hour or more later with what they described as a universal (110/208/240) transformer but they seemed to lack confidence in hooking it up. When they flipped the breaker I heard a loud pop, some scrambling and cussing. I let them keep working at it and an hour or so later they came and got me. They had taken a 110 volt transformer (my unit takes a 240 volt) hooked it to a plug, plugged it in and connected it to the heat pump. They explained that this demonstrated the transformer was in fact at fault because the system functioned fine when supplied with 24(+) volts. They declared that the other transformer had blown for reasons unknown to them. They said it could be a short anywhere in the system ( I know this is B.S. because there is less than a foot of wiring between the breakers on the unit and the transformer) or it could have been a defective transformer. I asked if they could possibley have wired it up wrong but they said there was no way.So they said they could uninstall the motor, capacitor, and relay and put my old stuff back or I could keep them and they would cut me a deal. I said the stuff is old, the blower works much better what kind of a deal are we talking about? They said $x plus tax. I said fine (frankly I just wanted them gone) and they asked if I thought I could order and install a transformer. I said yes and I can. Unlike them I understand basic electricity and I can decipher a wiring diagram.
So I have ordered a transformer that matches the original and I'll put it in when it gets here. I also went back behind them last night and soldered up the connections for the new motor and checked everything else over. Two days and over $x dollars and I still have no heat. Good thing I have a fireplace with blower and a couple space heaters.
More to follow.
Last edited by beenthere; 03-02-2009 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Removed prices.
Professional Member
thats sad to hear that even the boss couldnt figure something like this out. If I were you, I wouldnt have paid them anything as they haven't fixed the problem yet. Your still w/o heat. At this point, I would just find the orginial installers of the equip. or find another company. Good luck, and I hope everything turns out ok in the end.
p.s.
I would also reccomend that you not install the transformer, leave that to the pro's.
"Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential"
Winston Churchill
Regular Guest
p.s.
I would also reccomend that you not install the transformer, leave that to the pro's.
Got it, no DIY. Bad homeowner.
Professional Member
Tell me if I got this straight...
They installed a transformer. That transformer tripped a circuit and shorted itself out. They think it may be something else in the circuit that has caused the transformer to fail. They then tell you that you can install a new transformer on your own, in the same circuit that caused the last transformer to fail and when the cause of the last transformer failure is still unknown...
It sounds to me like you need to call someone else in to fix the problem.
... And when that new company comes get them to inspect that 30 year old heat exchanger for holes and cracks. There is no point in spending money on this unit if the heat exchanger is no good. By the time you fix the no heat problem and a heat exchanger you may want to consider buying a new unit.
Just my two cents...
Quickly, I must hurry, for there go my people and I am their leader!
Professional Member
This is the problem with our industry. Where i love the fact that this is one of the last types of business in america where a worker can become a owner and there is not a WALMART of AC. There are so many unqualified people out there. We need tougher standers for who can own a company and need stricter regulations. Wow i can not beleivei just said that. Oh well.
Regular Guest
My old transformer didn't blow, it was just putting out 21 volts, not the specified 24. The transformer they installed I am 99.999999% sure they wired wrong and it popped as soon as they threw the breaker. They probably wired it to the 110 or 208 configuration. There is clean 242 volts on the two wires coming into the transformer. There is no issue there.
Professional Member
That is bad when the boss is stumped on an older system. The problem probably is not the transformer any way. best to find a good contractor in the area.
Professional Member*
original installer? probably mr. coleman his selfit was his first!
"When the people find they can vote themselves money,that will herald the end of the republic" - Benjamin Franklin
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force;like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action"- George Washington
Professional Member*
From what I've read, I'd let you work on my unit, before I'd let those goobers touch it. Good luck to ya, brother!Well, the guy came back yesterday with the boss. They fiddled around and determined that it was the transformer so they left to go get one. They came back about an hour or more later with what they described as a universal (110/208/240) transformer but they seemed to lack confidence in hooking it up. When they flipped the breaker I heard a loud pop, some scrambling and cussing. I let them keep working at it and an hour or so later they came and got me. They had taken a 110 volt transformer (my unit takes a 240 volt) hooked it to a plug, plugged it in and connected it to the heat pump. They explained that this demonstrated the transformer was in fact at fault because the system functioned fine when supplied with 24(+) volts. They declared that the other transformer had blown for reasons unknown to them. They said it could be a short anywhere in the system ( I know this is B.S. because there is less than a foot of wiring between the breakers on the unit and the transformer) or it could have been a defective transformer. I asked if they could possibley have wired it up wrong but they said there was no way.
So I have ordered a transformer that matches the original and I'll put it in when it gets here. I also went back behind them last night and soldered up the connections for the new motor and checked everything else over. Two days and over $x dollars and I still have no heat. Good thing I have a fireplace with blower and a couple space heaters.
More to follow.
Oh yea, don't mention that fireplace thing in the fireplace forum, they will swear up and down that fireplaces DO NOT PRODUCE ANY HEAT! Strange thing, considering mine kept my whole house at 80 when it was under 40 when my power was out for 2 days. Anyway, most of the time, you're going to find that something caused the transformer to go bad. Just a heads up.
AOP Committee/Professional Member*
DIY, bad, granted. PROFESSIONAL HVAC company? I think not. Basic electric 101. Goobers give real techs a bad name. As for checking the heat exchanger, pretty sure there ain't one.
A good HVAC tech knows how, an educated HVAC tech knows why!
DEM
Regular Guest
So, just to close this thread out...
I got a new transformer installed it (with 5 amp fuses on both low voltage leads)and everything seemed to work fine. However, in testing it I have found that everytime I switch to emergency heat it blows the fuse on the ground side of the 24 volt. And... now that I think about I had switched the unit to emergency heat because it was so cold Saturday morning and the outside unit had a little ice on it. So I must have a short somewhere. I tried unplugging the 24 volt wires going into the sequencers (S1 and S2) for the heating elements but it still blew the fuse.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
When you find a company with real service techs. They'll be able to find and fix the problem.
Professional Member
It's funny how it costs more to go with the cheeper companies...
Quickly, I must hurry, for there go my people and I am their leader!
Professional Member
LOL, I see! It looks like I've skipped right past the part about the aux heat coils listed in one of the first postsI saw the part about 30 years old and I got all worried
Quickly, I must hurry, for there go my people and I am their leader!
Regular Guest
It's funny how it costs more to go with the cheeper companies...Cost wasn't a factor. I am relatively new in town, and this guy answered on a Saturday morning and said he would come out. The outside temperature was about 10 degrees and I have kids. The other person I got a hold of in town was not willing to look at a Coleman and referred me to this guy.
Anyway, I did find the root of the problem. I knew it had to be on the emergency heat circuit so that is what I started troubleshooting. I found that the thermostat had the X wire attached to the E (emergency) post. I looked in the installation guide for that model thermostat and that is one configuration listed. However, I knew right away the X (ground) should be on the C post and a jumper run between AUX and E. After correcting the wiring all seems to function perfectly.
Thanks,
Matt
Professional Member*
Yea, that'll do it. Glad we couldn't help!It's funny how it costs more to go with the cheeper companies...Cost wasn't a factor. I am relatively new in town, and this guy answered on a Saturday morning and said he would come out. The outside temperature was about 10 degrees and I have kids. The other person I got a hold of in town was not willing to look at a Coleman and referred me to this guy.
Anyway, I did find the root of the problem. I knew it had to be on the emergency heat circuit so that is what I started troubleshooting. I found that the thermostat had the X wire attached to the E (emergency) post. I looked in the installation guide for that model thermostat and that is one configuration listed. However, I knew right away the X (ground) should be on the C post and a jumper run between AUX and E. After correcting the wiring all seems to function perfectly.
Thanks,
Matt
Regular Guest
Was that the first time in its life that anyone had used the "emergency" setting??
Regular Guest
No, I don't think so. But it was the last time, for about a week. Anyway, all is well now.
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