Infinity system fault causing airflow issues & errors
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  1. #1
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    Jan 2006
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    Infinity system fault causing airflow issues & errors

    Hello,

    1st some background (sorry about the length): In Feb 06 we added 2 new Carrier Infinity Systems to our house (2 furnaces, 2 compressors, etc.). On the other side of the house (it’s a big old Victorian) we already had 2 carrier systems (installed April 04, Thermidistat thermostat) (1 w/ 2 zones) that included the Infinity 96 furnaces, variable-speed blowers, and 2 compressors (I think the comfort line as they’re NOT the 2 speed ones). When adding the new systems 3 years ago we made the older, existing systems into Infinity systems (Infinitized them. Everything worked great for the 3 or so years until a couple of weeks ago.

    The “Infinitized” system w/ 2 zones (1 zone is the entire 3rd floor which almost NEVER calls for heat or cooling as we don’t use the 3rd floor, the other zone is 3 bedrooms & 2 baths on the 2nd floor, the stat’s in the master) got a system fault or something to that effect. I was able to press a button to dismiss it & thought nothing of it. But it came back again a couple of days later so I went into the “service” mode on the Infinity stat & discovered the following errors: 25 – Model/Setup error (87 events); 45 – Control Lockout (17 events), this one (45) also stated Active on this occasion. I check the service checkout daily and notice these 2 errors all the time. There are some others on occasion (41 & 32).

    Here’s what else I noticed: when the stat calls for heat it comes on full blast (sounds like a freight train), stays on for a couple of minutes, shuts off, than seems to purge its self on full blast again for a minute or so. It also tends to overshoot now by 1 degree. It’s as though there’s no slow speed when it calls for heat. Before this fault you barely noticed the system was on, just like all the other ones in the house. This particular stat is in the master bedroom so you really notice the air blasts. I also noticed that the manual fan speed (L,M, & H) blow much stronger & are much louder than before. In fact, you would have been hard-pressed to figure out which manual fan speed it was on. The Infinity system made this thing pretty unobtrusive for those 3 years. One final thing – before we Infinitized this, it was certainly more obtrusive than after the Infinitizing, but not as bad as it is now – the manual fan speeds (using the Carrier Thermidistat) were stronger & louder & the system came on strong AT TIMES, but not all the time. I even tried changing the Zone Airflow Limits to the following:
    Zone 1 (the smaller zone where the main stat is): from Maximum to Low - kept Zone 2 (the larger 3rd floor zone) at Medium. This solved the manual fan issue to some degree (back to being slower & quieter, though I’m unsure if it’s as quiet as it was), but everything else is still the same-loud, strong, obtrusive. I also tried changing the Furnace Airflow to Comfort from Efficiency with no effect. Can anyone shed some light on what the problem(s) may be? I can supply you with more info if necessary. Thx.

    Model #s:

    58MVP100-F Natural Gas furnace
    CK5BXA048021 - coil
    38TXA048331 - condensor
    Infinity tstats
    Carrier Zoning panel

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Midwest
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    Call your contractor, it's a known problem. Its a software issue between your Infinity control and the furnace PCB. The problem is in the furnace PCB NOT the Infinity control. Filters were added to the furnace PCB on the 39th week of 05, your PCB on the furnace will be before that serial date I am sure.

    Call your Carrier guy and have him read SMB 05-0052 before coming out.
    Live each day like it is your last, for one day you will be right!

  3. #3
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    Jan 2006
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    By PCB I assume you mean the circuit board? Why did the problem hide for 3 years? The (authorized) Carrier contractor actually came out nearly immediately and claimed they found nothing wrong & reset the errors (this is before I really noticed the "blowing" issues happen all the time, not just occasionally). They are now scheduled to come out Monday so I'll have to call them in the am. Any chance you can post SMB 05-0052 so I can read it? What exactly is an "SMB 05-0052"? Some kind of a recall? Anyway, thx for such a fast reply!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    By PCB I assume you mean the circuit board? Why did the problem hide for 3 years? The (authorized) Carrier contractor actually came out nearly immediately and claimed they found nothing wrong & reset the errors (this is before I really noticed the "blowing" issues happen all the time, not just occasionally). They are now scheduled to come out Monday so I'll have to call them in the am. Any chance you can post SMB 05-0052 so I can read it? What exactly is an "SMB 05-0052"? Some kind of a recall? Anyway, thx for such a fast reply!

    It takes time for the software to record the errors. In other words, it gets more confused over time. All the faults you listed are associated with this problem. I found the first failure in this area with one of my dealers...we really didn't know what was going on. Over the last 3 or 4 years I have seen this failure numerous times, it has always been the board. The board was not affected when using a conventional thermostat, only appeared when the logic of the Infinity got attached.

    I can not post an SMB, those are factory issued. However they do make a DSB version that can be posted but I don't have that version saved. I will look it up in a bit for you.
    Live each day like it is your last, for one day you will be right!

  5. #5
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    Jan 2006
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    OK, I'd love to see it so I can speak intelligently and more importantly don't get any run-around. Thanks yet again.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    OK, I'd love to see it so I can speak intelligently and more importantly don't get any run-around. Thanks yet again.
    The 25 fault is almost a dead give away, I usually see this with 41, 45 or 15 fault codes. I don't think your dealer would deliberately give you the run around. What I find is many times the bulletin does not get into the hands of the people that need it the most...the technician.
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    Live each day like it is your last, for one day you will be right!

  7. #7
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    Jan 2006
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    You're correct, I get plenty of 41 & 45 codes as well as 32 (LPS Open). "Run around" was the wrong choice of words. While I never felt anything was deliberate - being a complicated system, I've felt that the dealer isn't entirely familiar w/ the system. So education is the key to getting things fixed. Anyway, thx so much for the bulletin. While I have you, on my other system (this one is a single zone) that wasn't originally Infinity, I've noticed the a lot of fault codes 12 & 32. Also, a few days ago I noticed on the tstat, in the top left corner "SENS ERROR". Any idea what that may be?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    You're correct, I get plenty of 41 & 45 codes as well as 32 (LPS Open). "Run around" was the wrong choice of words. While I never felt anything was deliberate - being a complicated system, I've felt that the dealer isn't entirely familiar w/ the system. So education is the key to getting things fixed. Anyway, thx so much for the bulletin. While I have you, on my other system (this one is a single zone) that wasn't originally Infinity, I've noticed the a lot of fault codes 12 & 32. Also, a few days ago I noticed on the tstat, in the top left corner "SENS ERROR". Any idea what that may be?
    Your other system has "sensor error" on the screen? I thought you said the other system was a Thermidistat? I know of no software that prints this message on a Thermidistat. In the case of an error on the Thermidistat it displays "E" prompts.
    Live each day like it is your last, for one day you will be right!

  9. #9
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    No, it's an Infinity tstat. There were 2 original systems (1 w/ 2 zones, that's the one with the blowing issues, 1 w/ 1 zone, that's this one) in the house w/ thermidistats. When we added the 2 NEW Infinity systems on the other side of the house we Infinitized these 2 thermidistat systems as well (I have a total of 4 systems, 1 has 2 zones). Sorry about the confusion.

  10. #10
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    Ohhh, in that case sensor error means it can not read the outdoor sensor, it may also mean it can not communicate with the outdoor unit. Sounds like you are having some sort of power interruption issue indicated by the #12 fault code.
    Live each day like it is your last, for one day you will be right!

  11. #11
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    Because this was not ORIGINALLY an Infinity system, there was never an outdoor sensor, so that part of the screen on the tstat was always blank. I *think* this started after I started to fiddle around with the tstats setup. Is there a setting to tell it there's no outdoor sensor? Or was I too rough using the tstats controls & possibly loosened a wire or a pin is making poor contact? What do you think? Thx.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    Because this was not ORIGINALLY an Infinity system, there was never an outdoor sensor, so that part of the screen on the tstat was always blank. I *think* this started after I started to fiddle around with the tstats setup. Is there a setting to tell it there's no outdoor sensor? Or was I too rough using the tstats controls & possibly loosened a wire or a pin is making poor contact? What do you think? Thx.
    You must have turned on a setting that requires the monitoring of the outdoor sensor. Usually this is only required when using dual fuel or you have selected an "auto" humidifier setting that is looking for the outdoor sensor.
    Live each day like it is your last, for one day you will be right!

  13. #13
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    OK, thx. I'll report back on both issues (probably) tomorrow.

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