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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    173
    What is a NATE certified Installer ?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,071
    Originally posted by texair
    Is this how NATE certified Installers do it your area?
    Yeah, pretty much! You should see how they screw up a new home job.
    Hindsight is NOT a plan!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    Come On Now! What is with the general attacks on NATE? The poor installation has nothing to do with NATE certification in and of itself!

    NATE certification is an indication that the individual who takes and passes the exam or series of exams has met a particular level of technical knowledge. It is only one indicator of the level of competence of the individual holding the certification.

    A good parallel is a medical doctor. All medical doctors must pass a medical bar exam which indicates that they have met a particular level of medical knowledge. I would not want to see a doctor who could not pass the bar would you?

    Yet, there are incompetent doctors in practice who should lose their license or never been granted it in the first place. But, not all doctors are incompetent just because some who passed the medical bar are.

    The same holds true for the NATE certification. Any installer or service tech worth his or her paycheck should be able to pass the NATE exams. If they can't, they need to improve their knowledge. No certification or license is a guarantee!!!!!! But it is an indicator of some value.


  4. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,071
    Norm, for a real long time, certain people on this web site have heralded NATE as the "fix-all" for everything that is wrong with this industry. According to them, it is the sure fire way to stop:
    hacks
    jack legs
    tailgating
    side work
    low job costs
    high job costs
    runny nose
    drug abuse
    terrorism
    acne
    and a host of other things that happen in every day life.

    So, many people here have gotten into a habit of hating NATE for no other reason than the incessant forcing of it down their throats. Just like many people rebel against religious fanatics who try to force you to believe in "their" god, doctrine or personal saint, many people here have come to view NATE fanatics the same way.

    I encourage you to do a search for NATE and read the discussions. There is hyperbole on both sides.

    You seem to have a reasonable expectation of NATE and similar certifications, and I commend you for those expectations. However, do not expect immediate change in the attitudes of those here. Just like Robo and his campaign to improve Goodman's reputation for quality and service, it will take a L-O-N-G time.

    Good luck in your quest! But choose your windmills wisely.
    Hindsight is NOT a plan!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Originally posted by NormChris
    Come On Now! What is with the general attacks on NATE? The poor installation has nothing to do with NATE certification in and of itself!

    NATE certification is an indication that the individual who takes and passes the exam or series of exams has met a particular level of technical knowledge. It is only one indicator of the level of competence of the individual holding the certification.

    A good parallel is a medical doctor. All medical doctors must pass a medical bar exam which indicates that they have met a particular level of medical knowledge. I would not want to see a doctor who could not pass the bar would you?

    Yet, there are incompetent doctors in practice who should lose their license or never been granted it in the first place. But, not all doctors are incompetent just because some who passed the medical bar are.

    The same holds true for the NATE certification. Any installer or service tech worth his or her paycheck should be able to pass the NATE exams. If they can't, they need to improve their knowledge. No certification or license is a guarantee!!!!!! But it is an indicator of some value.

    I like the way you have put it!Even if bama doesn't!!

    Norm, don't let a few ,very very few peoples fear of testing discourage you!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    Bama understands. I think we are all on the same page on this. Nobody has posted any arguements thus far anyway.

    Norm

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Minnesota/North Dakota
    Posts
    1,191
    Originally posted by BamaCracker


    So, many people here have gotten into a habit of hating NATE for no other reason than the incessant forcing of it down their throats.
    I don't know if forced down the throat is a proper term, but I have been involved in discussions. Never has it been implied that Certification will eliminate all the problems with our industry. It has been stated that it will make it much better due to some states have absolutely no licensing at all. Here is a list of manufacturers who have, or who are working on a Dealer Incentive Program for the Dealers who employ a certain percentage of NATE Certified techs.

    American Standard
    Bryant
    Carrier
    Lennox
    Maytag
    Nordyne
    Rheem
    Rudd
    Trane
    York

    Some are making it mandatory to have a certain percentage of NATE Certified techs to be a dealer of their equipment. As far as Bryant and Carrier, their requirement will be: 100% of installations must be signed off by a NATE Certified Technician.
    Reference: December issue of Contractor News
    Thanks
    REAK

    [Edited by Reak on 01-22-2003 at 11:13 AM]

  8. #21
    Here are the Carrier rules DEALER GUIDELINES
    Step 1 – To participate in the Carrier Factory Authorized Dealer program, 50% of installer technicians must be
    certified.
    Step 2 – Each installer technician must pass the Core Exam (50 questions) in addition to either the Heating or Air
    Conditioning Specialty Exam (100 questions)
    Step 3 – When additional tests are taken, the next specialty test must be either the Heating or Air Conditioning
    exam, whichever was not taken first
    Step 4 – Attend a NATE offered test, if the dealer chooses to take NATE exam versus Carrier online tests
    Step 5 – Receive a passing score of 70% or higher (if one of the exams is failed, the student will receive credit for
    the exam that was passed. Tests can be re-taken after a 30-day study period. There is a 2-year window
    to take and pass the missing exam.)
    Step 6 – NATE informs technician of scores on tests within 3 weeks and provides a certificate for any test passed.
    Step 7 – When technicians pass both the Core and Specialty exam, list technician name, date exam Passed and
    specialty test passed on Factory Authorized Dealer Enrollment form and attach a copy of the technician’s
    certificate.

    This is a program that Carrier is offering and it will not be applied to all dealers.Factory Authorized Dealers will be offering 100% customer satisfaction or your money back type of guarantee.It is strictly optional for dealers.


  9. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Minnesota/North Dakota
    Posts
    1,191
    I just got off the phone with our local Carrier Dealer to get some info to help this thread. It is his belief, that Carrier is going to make this mandatory in 2004 or Carrier will give price discounts for accomplishing this by 2004. I do not know how accurate this is, but it is what I have been told. He said he was assured by the distributor that there would be some type of incentive, and this is what he has heard to this point. If anyone can add to this, it would be great.
    Thanks
    REAK

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    manitowoc wisconsin
    Posts
    4,943
    don't you guy's have inspectors?was a permit pulled?looks like a couple of little kids put this in!!!
    Take your time & do it right!

  11. #24
    Reak, Call 1-800-966-6112 That is Carrier South Texas. Talk to John Lovelace he is the G.M., I am sure he will answer any questions you may have about this. This will never become mandatory.I think it would be a damn good thing if it did.
    Mark, Answers
    1. yes
    2. no
    3. I showed your post to some little kids and they are offended

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Minnesota/North Dakota
    Posts
    1,191
    Tex,
    Did they mention any incentives at all? Just curious so I can report back to the local dude so he can investigate.
    Thanks
    REAK

  13. #26
    reak,
    I will pass along what I know about this. The incentive is that "dealer" becomes a "Factory Authorized Dealer". As a FAD you participate in a 100% satisfaction guarantee program, and get to particiapte in a nationwide ad campaign,and get prominent listing in yellow pages, TV tags etc. I seriously doubt that there will be any price incentives.In order to purchase some equipment you may have to be a FAD, but I have been assured that it won't be an issue for years. It will be interesting to see which systems will and won't qualify for this guarantee. My personal opinion is that this is just a sales gimmick directed at a targeted market.It also shows me that those NATE salesmen must be good.

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