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  1. #14
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    Thanks for all the input.

    It's an old mobile home, already taking quite a few thousand off our asking price just for regular wear and tear over the years(other things we don't have the resources, mainly time, to fix up) haha so if I try selling it without a working furnace I see myself pretty much having to just give it away. Doesn't help that it'll be painfully cold where I live until May.

    I went over there today and was able to light it and get it running, but the damn thing kept short cycling(hoping it's cuz the wires for the thermostat werent firmly/suitably connected back after the technicians troubleshot to ensure that wasnt part of the problem(shooting wires). They hadn't yet called it a completed job fyi. I turned it off at that point, and then went to see if i could light it again and there was no hope. I could physically feel cold air flow in the burner chamber. Most attempts the match would go out IMMEDIATELY after putting it into the opening to reach the pilot, like the second it crossed that threshold into there the air would put the match out. I was able to light it once more, but as soon as i moved the knob from the pilot position to on, it went out again.

    The blower doesnt have any connection to the issues lighting the pilot or it going out.

    Furnace folks wanted to come out and get on the roof, thought the flue was busted. I told em i could do that(not paying more labor costs for them to do something that simple). There's no visible damage to the flue, no cracks, not rusted through, looks fine. It does have a cap on it btw.

    Been through 3 winters in the place, never had issue with it doing this before. Pretty weird.

    Any ideas on how to fix such a problem? Should I try a different cap? Neighbor told me they had issues with that in the past and just stacked tires up to block the wind around the flue, id prefer a more permanent and less junky actual fix.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    It strikes me that there was a dish shaped plate with was there to prevent that happening. It's probably laying in the bottom of the heater now. The early units did not have it and it was supplied as a warranty-repair item.

    There was another issue where flue-gas condensate could drip on the pilot and put it out during a cold start-up. There was a retrofit kit for that too. <g>

    Tell me this: When EXACTLY does the pilot go out? Specifically: is it just when the main blower starts running?

    PHM
    --------
    I can't recall if there was a dish shaped plate. It would make sense if they removed that or it was busted up and they didnt reinstall it after doing the maintenance, seeing how i never had this issue before in the 3 past winters till now.

    Surely they would recognize the point of such a contraption on the burner assembly and wouldnt just throw the whole thing back in without it, then go, "dang, let's get on the roof i guess", when the wind issue blows up?

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lo Pan View Post
    I can't recall if there was a dish shaped plate. It would make sense if they removed that or it was busted up and they didnt reinstall it after doing the maintenance, seeing how i never had this issue before in the 3 past winters till now.

    Surely they would recognize the point of such a contraption on the burner assembly and wouldnt just throw the whole thing back in without it, then go, "dang, let's get on the roof i guess", when the wind issue blows up?
    That's the baffle I was talking about in the upper part of the heat exchanger.

    A starKap on the flue might help with down draft problems.
    Experience - knowing when to get the hell out of the way and plug your ears. "Don't be a sissy. Turn it on!"

    Poodle Head Mikey - "the world is well populated with the unknowing and the uncaring and the stupid."

    Jtrammel - "I’m going to sell hvac systems derp derp derp"
    BBeerme - "every time he opens his mouth, he reminds me of a cow without the fart bag."

  4. #17
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    It's quite noticeable at the end of the burner assembly. About 2" in diameter and sitting at a 45º angle. Like this:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BLUW75I..._t1_B01BLUW7N0

    Air moves from areas of high pressure towards and into areas of low pressure. If the furnace blower is not running - air is coming out the front of the burner as you try to light the pilot indicates that the structure has a negative pressure problem. Can you light the pilot if you open several windows?

    Those standing pilot units always were a PITA - spark ignition was put onto those units pretty early in their production. I always suspected that it was for that reason. <g>

    PHM
    --------



    Quote Originally Posted by David Lo Pan View Post
    I can't recall if there was a dish shaped plate. It would make sense if they removed that or it was busted up and they didnt reinstall it after doing the maintenance, seeing how i never had this issue before in the 3 past winters till now.

    Surely they would recognize the point of such a contraption on the burner assembly and wouldnt just throw the whole thing back in without it, then go, "dang, let's get on the roof i guess", when the wind issue blows up?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Marc View Post
    That's the baffle I was talking about in the upper part of the heat exchanger.

    A starKap on the flue might help with down draft problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    It's quite noticeable at the end of the burner assembly. About 2" in diameter and sitting at a 45º angle. Like this:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BLUW75I..._t1_B01BLUW7N0

    Air moves from areas of high pressure towards and into areas of low pressure. If the furnace blower is not running - air is coming out the front of the burner as you try to light the pilot indicates that the structure has a negative pressure problem. Can you light the pilot if you open several windows?

    Those standing pilot units always were a PITA - spark ignition was put onto those units pretty early in their production. I always suspected that it was for that reason. <g>

    PHM
    --------
    I think you guys are talking 2 different items.

    They had both of these.
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  6. #19
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    That does look familiar. I'll have to look to see if it was reinstalled. Surely a HVAC technician would recognize what that is or at least know to reinstall it or find a replacement part for it if damaged though?

    I tried lighting it with the front door open. Ill give it a whirl with some more stuff open.

  7. #20
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    Those starkaps actually work, better than other caps at least?

    They as easy to install or is therem ore to em.

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacnw View Post
    I think you guys are talking 2 different items.

    They had both of these.
    Yes, I realized that we are. The baffle Im talking about is at the inside, top of the exhanger. It's held in with 4 pop rivets. When the rivets fall out it allows the panel to fall and the wind draft to hit the burner directly.
    Experience - knowing when to get the hell out of the way and plug your ears. "Don't be a sissy. Turn it on!"

    Poodle Head Mikey - "the world is well populated with the unknowing and the uncaring and the stupid."

    Jtrammel - "I’m going to sell hvac systems derp derp derp"
    BBeerme - "every time he opens his mouth, he reminds me of a cow without the fart bag."

  9. #22
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    There IS some form of baffle installed. Perhaps it's not as good as the previous one(they pretty much rebuilt the burner assembly it seems like, original one was so beat). I figure this has to be the case, the rebuilt/replacement one just isn't as good, doesnt provide as much air protection. Again, never had this issue with the downdraft before. At the same time though, it doesnt appear that these baffles, given their location over the end of the burner/pilot/etc. tip, would effect the air flow at the opening of the burner chamber(my little access hole/door that i stick the match through). Most times my match is blown out right then.

    Seems downdraft might not be the biggest problem. Hard to say if my furnace is operating as it should or not at this point.

    So I went over yesterday and was able to light it(wasnt nearly as windy out). It did the same thing i mentioned earlier with the short cycling. I hoped it was perhaps a bad thermostat, but i checked into that and it doesn't appear to be the case(not to mention the wife said the techs did check the thermostat wires on the first day of troubleshooting it). Blower would kick on for a min, then off for a min, and would do this for about 10 min and then the burner would extinguish. Mainly out of shear frustration and fury at this point, I kept stubbornly relighting it, as if i could force it to do what i wanted through shear repetitive will.

    It did this for about 40 min or so. About 10 min of short cycling, then burner extinquishes itself, i relight, repeat.

    Then, after that 40 min, it just stayed on. I had what seemed to be a working furnace for nearly an hour. It just did its thing for about an hour. Then, i hear blower click off, and burner extinguishes again. And of course, downdraft at that point put the pilot out.

    The short cycling initially is troublesome. Did the new thermocouple just need time to warm up sufficiently thru repeated attempts? Did the furnace on the whole, especailly blower, just need time to work its own kinks out after having not been successfully run in over a year at this point? Or is there a deeper problem? Surely, if the blower motor, or a limit switch, or gas valve assembly, or heat exchanger, or something else were bad, I wouldnt have gotten such a lengthy period of sustained successful operation of the unit?

    I'll have to go over and run it again to see what it does. It IS normal ops for a furnaces burner to extinquish right? Even with a standing pilot? My understanding is the pilot stays lit always, but the burner doesnt fire up and do its thing unless the thermostat calls for heat. Pilot always lit, thermostat calls for heat, it all fires up, blower senses things next and starts pushing warm air thru house. Thermostat says house is hot enough, blower stops, burner extinguishes, pilot remains lit for next time therm calls for action. Just want to make sure i got that basics correct.

    So, my furnace COULD be fixed, and the only problem im actually dealing with now is that the downdraft is going to extinguish the pilot any and every damn time the thermostat says the requested temp has been reached. Which makes it essentially worthless cuz you'll be relighting it every hour, if not more.

    One of the main reasons Im concerned it isnt JUST the issue of downdraft is i had thermnostat put to highest setting, shouldnt have clicked off or stopped calling for heat until it hit 85-90 degrees in my house. It most def was not that hot(old ass furnace aint that efficient/powerful, and it was 0 degrees out so it woulda took some doin and significant time for anything to hit that regardless). After just an hour, it simply wasnt closed to the temp i had set the thermostat to.

    Prob need more evidence(go over today and try again, does it run norm, do i still have short cycling issues, etc) before anything too definitive can be suggested, but i would still appreciate any input as is.

  10. #23
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    Just ran it again. It short cycles for 30 min or so, then works fine.

    Weird.

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