ReplyManufacturer should have the form you need.
Professional Member
I hope everyone is aware of the tax credits that are availiable for 2009:
$300 for 95% furnaces and boilers
$300 for 95% tankless water hearters
$300 for 15 SEER/9 HSPF heat pumps
$300 for 15 SEER a/c
30% of the cost of geopthermal systems, up to $2000 for 16EER open and
14EER closed loop systems.
My question relates to the "Manufacturers Certificate" that the homeowners have to submit with the tax credit form. I don't think a copy of the ARI matchup or a manufacturers spec sheet will make Uncle Sam happy. It seems like uncle will want a specific certificate for each system that qualifies.
I can give my homeowner a copy of the requirements and a cut sheet of the efficiency ratings, but we need a IRS approved certificate to give them now and not have everybody call us in 2010 asking for the paperwork.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Manufacturer should have the form you need.
Regular Guest
Gee the way I read the Stimulas bill last night I thought the rebates and or tax credits were for moast all upgrades weather it was for a effcient hot water heater, to boilers, to NG furnaces and AC/HP's your allowed a maximum of 30% of the cost up to $1500 max for rebates. I didnn't see anything in the Bill that limits those that you mention up to $300 for each. Go here take a look at the proposed Stimulas Bill it is outlined somewhere towards the middle of the 778 pages, LOL
http://tracking.smartmailer.net/?124-854-554838-1042
Professional Member*
Don't forget the 9 HSPF and 15 SEER... must also exceed 13 EER. Lots of systems meet the first 2, but many don't meet the third requirement. At least few Tranes heat pumps have a 13 EER.
A/C's need an EER of 12.5. My heat pmp is only 11.5 EER... but it's 15.50 SEER. Oh well, the electric company will still give me $650. Screw uncle sam.
Hopefully the stimulus bill will open up the requirements to include more moderate effeciency units (as thought 8.5 HSPF, 15.50 SEER and 11.50 EER is bad). It's actually pretty good for a 60k BTU upflow furnace. Carrier's narrow furnaces fell well short of those numbers. At least allow anything energy star rated to qualify rather than setting their standards even higher. My unit does meet energy star levels.
Funny, if I stick a horizontal unit in the attic, I'd get the rebates... but I'd be wasting more energy overall.
Professional Member*
I found the list of gas furnaces that meet the "advanced main air circulating fan". http://www.gamanet.org/gama/inforeso...30-gas-rfr.pdf
For some reason the upflow version of my furnace is not listed (Trance XV's are on page 101). Downflow and horizontal are ok. Maybe Trane lumps the horizontal and upflow units together??? Anyone know. I'm like to get my $50 next year.
Global Moderator
I have heard they are leaning toward 16 SEER and 13 EER.
Then keep pumps at 15 SEER but lower EER to 13 and HSPF to 8.5!
Go figure!
Professional Member
unless something has changed it is only 150 for the 95 % furnaces
Regular Guest
Did you read thru the Stimulas that is going to go into effect soon all 778 pages, its in there I was browsing thru it last night. 30% for all quaiifing equipment up to a maximum of $1500 per upgrade. Not saying its going to remain as it currently is in the rough draft but should be pretty close maybe alittle better, who knows until it goes thru conference.
Regular Member
Current (2009) bill is $150 for 95% furnace, $50 for high efficiency furnace motor and $300 for 15 SEER/12.5 EER A/C ($500 max for ALL energy saving improvents). If the new bill is enacted later this spring it will go up to $1500 max. For more details see:
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...pr_tax_credits
Be careful that some high advertised SEER A/C units don't meet these SEER ratings with any furnace/coil combinations available nor do they meet the EER requirements. If a manufacturer doesn't have a certificate, they either haven't got around to it yet (for the newest equipment) or the equipment doesn't meet the requirements!
Regular Guest
Any qualified home improvements made in 2008 are not eligible for the tax credit"
Thats why the government blows, they cover 06,07,09 and don't do anything for '08. Well I'll get my revenge, any "stimulus" money they send me is going under the mattress....
Professional Member*
Go Carolina! Duke Sucks!Originally Posted by sktn77a
Regular Guest
I volunteer doing income taxes, each year do somewhere between 50 and 100 individual 1040 returns. We do *not* get wrapped around the axle documenting proof of things like this. Unless procedures really get tougher, we will accept any reasonable evidence the taxpayer did what he is claiming. Our motto is "we trust you, but remember it's your signature and not ours on that return". If a taxpayer looks me in the eye and says something is the truth, I will put it on the return and consider my job done with good ethics. This is volunteer tax preparation, maybe the for-profit places have different standards but I think they are less concerned with ethics (and more concerned with short term loans at sky-high interest rates).
If the IRS calls in the taxpayer for an audit, they no doubt will be looking for money and will call you on it, if the taxpayer did not really qualify. That doesn't happen too very often but is always a possibility. I really believe the IRS mostly conducts audits (like 95% of them) when they have reason to expect there are unpaid taxes, seldom just a fishing expedition. Most people can put their minds at rest on this. If a certificate simply represents your promise to the customer that the equipment meets standards, I have confidence the taxpayer can use this. And I think it sounds like a great idea to make your customers happier.
Hope this helps -- Pstu
Regular Member
Agree, but my son would kill me for saying so!
Professional Member
go heels ! just had to chime in on that cuz i was surprised to see it
Professional Member
First of all, this tax credit has nothing to do with the stimulus, this is a tax credit that was passed last year for the year 2009.
Secondly, this has nothing to with filing a normal tax return. The tax credit paperwork makes it very clear that they want a "Manufacturers Certificate" submitted with the IRS form. The certificate should clearly state that the system meets all of the criteria. Remember, boys and girls, this is the Infernal Revenue Service we are talking about, and we have all heard the horror stories about their antics. they may acept your word, they may want the whole enchiladda. Who knows?
My whole point is, WHY TAKE THE CHANCE? If Uncle, in his infinite wisdom, decides to follow the rule to the "T", who is your customer going to come back to for the proper documentation when they work on their 2009 taxes? YOU!!!
BE PROACTIVE - let's get the info NOW so we can give a package to the homeowner ASAP instead of playing catchup.
As the son of a 30 year IRS Special Agent who has heard some unbelievable stories from dear old dad, I can only say:
"You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't mess around with the old Lone Ranger
and you don't mess around with the IRS" (forgive me, Jim Crocie)
Regular Guest
I filed a return in a previous year with a credit for energy efficient stuff, and no proof had to be supplied with the return. Are you saying they have changed the rules to become truly anal about evidence in this particular credit? If you were to reference a particular IRS publication and page, that would be objective evidence that would help everybody.
I will attempt to do that. IRS Publication 17 which you can get free at lots of places, or download in PDF format from www.irs.gov. This is almost a "bible" which has most of the answers anyone would need. Look up "RESIDENTIAL ENERGY CREDIT" on page 254 for Tax Year 2008, the latest year available. Toward the bottom right of the page it simply says,
"HOW TO TAKE THE CREDIT -- Complete Form 5695 and attach it to your Form 1040. Enter the credit on Form 1040, line 53, and check box C."
That's not the whole story, but it is surely a simple procedure they expect most taxpayers to follow. As a HVAC business, that means to me you can create your own certificate, it won't be necessary but will make the taxpayer feel better to have.
Sure the IRS will be harsh if they believe you are trying to cheat them. But they just don't have the budget for widespread harassment of honest taxpayers. I actually believe the world would be a better place if the IRS were eliminated and our taxes raised by other methods... think about all the time saved, how many accountants could change to economic productive work... but in the meantime any honest taxpayer has little to fear from them.
Hope this helps -- Pstu
Regular Guest
The 2009 energy efficiency tax credits are not the same as 2008 and prior. The manufacturer's certificate is now required. The manufacturer's should have the tax certificates available. Here's a link for four HVAC manufacturers' certificates:
2009 Federal Tax Credits for Energy Efficiency (HVAC)
Here's a link for any of you that might blow in the GreenFiber brand of cellulose insulation this year (I did):
GreenFiber Manufacturer’s Certification Statement
Professional Member
Pstu, you might well be right on the money and it is a piece of cake. My point is that I want the manufacturers to have the information availiable in case we find it is needed.
On the other hand, it is true that at times Uncle Sam and the IRS brought being anal to new heights. What can I say?
If the IRS handles this like they did in 2006, then there will be no problems and no documentation is needed. If, however, they follow the rules as stated at http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...pr_tax_credits, you will need the certificate and maybe proof of purchase also.
The 2008 form 5695 and it's instruction sheet make no mention of the new credits, and in 2008 did NOT require any certificates. I am going to give my qualifing customers a voided copy of the 2008 form 5695 and a copy of the manufacturers spec sheet showing that their system meets the SEER and HSPF criteria just so they have it for reference next year. At the top I will write a "no guarantee disclaimer.
Professional Member
Now, that's what i'm talkin about!
These are exactly what we need in case the IRS wants them. If other manufacturers have them, we can give them to our customers at point of sale. These cover our bases.
Regular Guest
It is ironic. The President and Congress is falling all over themselves to give away most of a trillion dollars, and the IRS is supposed to add staff to make sure someone doesn't get an efficiency credit he isn't entitled to. If it were me in charge of the IRS (and I was not allowed to disband it), I would make sure any added personnel were in a position to attack the tax cheats and get back maximum revenue. There are a ton of areas more likely to yield tax revenue than nitpicking over efficiency credits. But you have done some research I have not and we may find these certificates are something new.
Best wishes -- Pstu
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