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  1. #1
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    assistance needed sizing some walk in cooler equipment

    so came across a new customer the other day, bought a bar about 3 months ago ......

    walk in cooler is in the basement, 8 x 8 x 6, not sure how well insulated the cooler is but I am thinking it has some insulation, perhaps some R 11 or !3, whatever would normally be in a 3 1/2 " wall cavity is my guess, one of the walls is on the outside basement wall, which is underground, so I imagine its heat load will be less ... looks as if the cooler was well built way back when but has been hacked somewhat since, what a shame what you see now a days from what once was, as you can see the door is mounted on brick, so maybe the walk in cooler was built with the bar ..... thinking the cooler should be exposed to 85 degrees, tops .....

    evaporator ESG065AEK
    compressor KAE2-0050-IAA


    box will not go below 50, bubbles in the sight glass, did not even bother to install my gauges because the owner has been told by a previous tech the condensing unit is too small, it has no fan shroud with just a 9 watt fan motor, motor seems small, condensing coil looks small, looks as if someone took a can of black spray paint and tried passing it off as new or rebuilt, who knows ...... did not get the numbers off the condensing unit but I a suspecting, well, not sure what I am suspecting ...... have no idea what refrigerant but I am suspecting R404a as written on the compressor, but then who knows, and what does " pi oil " mean anyhow ? ? ? .... going back later today to replace an evaporator fan motor on another unit can try and track down the condensing unit numbers ...

    if the equipment is able to work I can get it to work, that is not the concern ....

    owner is not opposed to installing new equipment if need be .....
    here are a few pictures ....
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    TYRANNY

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

    allowing members to insult and call another member names then banning the person that was insulted and called names ? TYRANNY, sounds about right to me


    I flow low pressure dry nitrogen to sweep non condseables then evacuate the dry nitrogen

  2. #2
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    R12 unit. 3850 btu at 20/120?

    Do your own diagnosis never trust a previous Tech!
    I would question the 404a usage unless that pump is o.k for that. I didnt see anything other than R12.


    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    Just a quick glance that evap looks about right for a 35f box if it was installed right and with a good matching condenser.
    Honeywell you can buy better but you cant pay more

    I told my wife when i die to sell my fishing stuff for what its worth not what i told her i paid for it

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  5. #4
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    I suspect this compressor was replaced at some time. That KAE2-0050 is designed for R12 and if there's R12 or one of its replacements like R134A in it, then that would explain the low performance. The original was most likely a KAE2-0075-CAA which was designed for an R22 medium temperature application. The 0075 and the 0050 have the same size compressor with a displacement of 134 CFH, but with different motors.

    KAE2-0050-IAA-Performance.pdf

    My guess is that R22 or one of its replacements like MO99, R407A or R407C would work, but the R404A that's noted in the pic...probably would be too high on the amp draw.

    You need to get some data to figure out what's in there or just go ahead, put some new R407A in it with a TXV to match and see what happens.

    The PI oil was probably a rough stab at the name for POE oil.

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  7. #5
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    I suspect this compressor was replaced at some time. That KAE2-0050 is designed for R12 and if there's R12 or one of its replacements like R134A in it, then that would explain the low performance. The original was most likely a KAE2-0075-CAA which was designed for an R22 medium temperature application. The 0075 and the 0050 have the same size compressor with a displacement of 134 CFH, but with different motors.

    KAE2-0050-IAA-Performance.pdf

    My guess is that R22 or one of its replacements like MO99, R407A or R407C would work, but the R404A that's noted in the pic...probably would be too high on the amp draw.

    You need to get some data to figure out what's in there or just go ahead, put some new R407A in it with a TXV to match and see what happens.

    The PI oil was probably a rough stab at the name for POE oil.
    thanks ICE !
    TYRANNY

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

    allowing members to insult and call another member names then banning the person that was insulted and called names ? TYRANNY, sounds about right to me


    I flow low pressure dry nitrogen to sweep non condseables then evacuate the dry nitrogen

  8. #6
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by crazzycajun View Post
    Just a quick glance that evap looks about right for a 35f box if it was installed right and with a good matching condenser.


    thanks for your response, trying to get a load calculation on the box ....
    TYRANNY

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

    allowing members to insult and call another member names then banning the person that was insulted and called names ? TYRANNY, sounds about right to me


    I flow low pressure dry nitrogen to sweep non condseables then evacuate the dry nitrogen

  9. #7
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    Roughly 6500-7000 btu/hr @ 35F box temp for heavy usage.

    Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

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  11. #8
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by BALloyd View Post
    Roughly 6500-7000 btu/hr @ 35F box temp for heavy usage.

    Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
    thank you ...
    TYRANNY

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

    allowing members to insult and call another member names then banning the person that was insulted and called names ? TYRANNY, sounds about right to me


    I flow low pressure dry nitrogen to sweep non condseables then evacuate the dry nitrogen

  12. #9
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    That KAE2-0050 is designed for R12 and if there's R12 or one of its replacements like R134A in it, then that would explain the low performance. The original was most likely a KAE2-0075-CAA which was designed for an R22 medium temperature application. The 0075 and the 0050 have the same size compressor with a displacement of 134 CFH, but with different motors.

    My guess is that R22 or one of its replacements like MO99, R407A or R407C would work, but the R404A that's noted in the pic...probably would be too high on the amp draw.

    somehow I am guessing all this is somehow pressure related, do you know of any good BASIC reading material I can start to break the ice with regarding the subject of compressor capacity and amperage and ratios ? not sure how far I would dive into the subject but it would probably be somewhat beneficial to have a better understanding than slightly above nothing ....
    TYRANNY

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

    allowing members to insult and call another member names then banning the person that was insulted and called names ? TYRANNY, sounds about right to me


    I flow low pressure dry nitrogen to sweep non condseables then evacuate the dry nitrogen

  13. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    somehow I am guessing all this is somehow pressure related, do you know of any good BASIC reading material I can start to break the ice with regarding the subject of compressor capacity and amperage and ratios ? not sure how far I would dive into the subject but it would probably be somewhat beneficial to have a better understanding than slightly above nothing ....
    What I have done over the years has been to study the manufacturer's compressor lineups and the capacity information they have for all of them. Copeland is probably the best at providing this kind of info. Particularly in their OPI section online.

    Learn by reading and comparing how the capacity, displacement the refrigerant type and the operating conditions are related and how each affects the performance. Good ones to look at are the compressor models that are rated for more than one refrigerant and for more than one operating condition.

    Learn how compressors can have the same displacements but different size motors (horsepower). You'll find that the MCC rating of a compressor often identifies a particular motor and its relative size.

    Stick to the published data for solid information and you'll end up with some solid results when you start shuffling the numbers around.

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  15. #11
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    What I have done over the years has been to study the manufacturer's compressor lineups and the capacity information they have for all of them. Copeland is probably the best at providing this kind of info. Particularly in their OPI section online.

    Learn by reading and comparing how the capacity, displacement the refrigerant type and the operating conditions are related and how each affects the performance. Good ones to look at are the compressor models that are rated for more than one refrigerant and for more than one operating condition.

    Learn how compressors can have the same displacements but different size motors (horsepower). You'll find that the MCC rating of a compressor often identifies a particular motor and its relative size.

    Stick to the published data for solid information and you'll end up with some solid results when you start shuffling the numbers around.
    thank you, will do


    honestly, I had absolutely no idea what was going on inside a scroll compressor until now ....

    Copeland website had this ....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=QZ_wSNnVxuM


    not complaining but I see this will take years to thoroughly understand ....
    Last edited by hvacskills; 08-12-2018 at 06:37 PM.
    TYRANNY

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

    allowing members to insult and call another member names then banning the person that was insulted and called names ? TYRANNY, sounds about right to me


    I flow low pressure dry nitrogen to sweep non condseables then evacuate the dry nitrogen

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