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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    2,454

    Another Butcher Job

    Got called to this big house, zone system acting up. I found this gem waiting for me:



    Note the blank spots, everyone and his brother have been working on this mess. 5 ton drive Rheem, single side return with an EAC. So, already it's sucking for air. How can we make it worse? Oooh, let's ZONE it! Sloppily installed California Economizer system. Note the bypass damper on the right dumping unfiltered air into the blower:



    The weight is also set so that it will never open. I had one single zone operating for a half hour and the damper never even fluttered.



    The humidifier has been leaking for a while, note the water line secured down to the metal with thumb gum.

    To top it all off, I can't find a zone panel. Why? Oh, because there isn't one. They wired it like so:



    The customer was very proud of this job, he was bragging to me that the engineers at Rheem flew in to design this for him. I tried to explain that if Rheem saw what they did to this unit they'd have his warranty voided, but I guess he didn't want to acknowledge that he paid for this.
    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    18,094
    Thats the problem, the engineers designed it.

    So where do you begin with this mess? If I were to quote a price on repairs, that money would be a better investment in a new system designed properly. One that has a zone panel, motorized dampers, proper return air and bypass.

    Im also wonder about the condition of the HX.
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,015
    dats all i gots to say to that


    P.S. - nice avatar picture, i lmao everytime i see it
    I dont install leaks, i just fix em

    Sig line removed by Admin*

    Lets see if this gets removed..............

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    2,454
    Quote Originally Posted by KLEINman View Post
    P.S. - nice avatar picture, i lmao everytime i see it
    You can make your own at:
    http://atom.smasher.org/construction/

    I didn't make mine, I just thought it was the funniest I'd seen.
    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fort Wayne Indiana
    Posts
    46
    Me thinks that the bypass damper isn't even in right. its supposed to be installed horizontally.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fort Wayne Indiana
    Posts
    46
    Drain is also done wrong. a trap in the drain after a tee installed for the humidifier isn't going to do much. Also NEVER a good idea to put humidifier on front of furnace. at least if you have to do that put a metal angle underneath to channel any leaking water to the side of the furnace rather than drip inside

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    2,454
    The trap is superfluous anyway - with a condensate pump you don't need to trap the line.
    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Somewhere in the midwest
    Posts
    405
    R2D2 would be so proud.
    Sound installation practices is the key to success. Equipment is only as good as the person installing it.

    If I can't fix it, it ain't broke.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    54
    Is that an engineered block stand. cool, I want one.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,687
    Wow, he's quite an electrician also.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    It's probably a good thing the by-pass never worked because at the size of that by-pass, the blower motor would be smoked ever couple months! More than likely a 6 or 7-inch by-pass would have been sufficient. As for the humidifier leak, I agree with putting a gutter under it to carry away and water but in all likliehood, nobody is servicing the accessories. That's one of the most overlooked items we find. Companies are more than willing to sell EAC's and Humidifers but none are willing to properly service them on a regular schedule. It's easy money and doesn't take much time but most companies don't do it. We do because we're there anyway on a tune-up and don't want the black eye of some "relative in the business/trade" badmouthing us at Thanksgiving when he looks at the furnace! You know they always do. That's all HVAC guys have to talk about, right? Admit it! And we've all got relatives, right? So...
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    Note the bypass damper on the right dumping unfiltered air into the blower:
    why does supply air need to be filtered? it has already been through the filter....

    Me thinks that the bypass damper isn't even in right. its supposed to be installed horizontally.
    it can be mounted wither horizontally or vertically. as long as it is in the right direction

    Also NEVER a good idea to put humidifier on front of furnace.
    looks to me like its after the furnace, is this not an upflow installation? cause that media filter at the bottom left sure has me confused

    at least if you have to do that put a metal angle underneath to channel any leaking water to the side of the furnace rather than drip inside
    it's above the A coil.... just where is the water going to drip again??? inless you're talking about the exterior water supply connections. in that case, maybe. but that would be over kill IMO

    i am not a fan of the california economizers. archaeic stuff. the zone panel is about as big as a 3x5 note pad depending on the age of this system. most contractors installed them next to the zone 1 thermostat. at least in my area. someone may not have been able to figure out the zone system and by-passed some things. and or they didn't know what they where doing. i run into that often... people tend to make things more difficult when they start jumping things out and by-passing things. i can see where this guy is a good candidate for a new zone system. EWC would be my fisrt choice in retrofitting this cluster.

    by-pass should be sized to handle the air with only the smallest zone working. so find out how many cfm's the smallest zone needs, subtract that from you total. then you know how much by-pass is needed depending on the smallest zone you have, a 10-12" round is prolly the right size. 10" dumps about 750 cfm and 12" dumps about 1200 cfm's
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

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