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  1. #14
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    Thread Starter
    I see the BASRTB-P with 3.0 firmware now also has diagnostics built in. The one I am offering currently doesn't have 3.0 firmware but I have contacted CC to see if I can get it updated to have these new features.

    kontrol out
    "Good" - Jocko
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora Watch it here!

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kontrolphreak View Post
    only shows you the packets and will not show any noise, interference or floating voltages like a true oscilloscope.
    That's because this guy is a logic analyzer. LAs typically only see signals as 1s or 0s but measure precise timing over a load of channels. So noise, ringing, etc will not show up like it would on a scope. Simple way to think about it, scope is an analog view, LA is a digital view of the signal. Screens may look similar but they are different tools.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  3. #16
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    Yep, that is what I was saying in non technical terms. It's a jack of all trades not a master of one.

    kontrol out
    "Good" - Jocko
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora Watch it here!

  4. #17
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    Awesome post! Thanks for all the info in one spot. Was going to mention the kmc multimeter one, very cool for the install techs and checkout.
    Nice job. Got some watching to do.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #18
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    Interesting post you have going here.
    I don't mean to complain, but I've been troubleshooting for over 20 years.
    Over the years, pounded into my head is the one most important thing missing on your convoluted network diagram.
    I have a Picoscope as well, but long before I pull it out the first thing I'll do now is map out a network.
    I like to know from the top down all the Device IDs, network connections (ethernet, UDP, MS/TP) with network numbers, MAC address of each device and locations of terminators.

    Many times a problem network will have just one or two devices configured in way that can trash a perfectly wired network. Every now and then I do run across a malfunctioning controller, or some dumb ass that connects a new device in a star wired to the closest controller and puts a terminator on the end of the wire.

    Other issues I've seen tend to do with improper grounding, wrong type of cable, and in one case over 400 feet of cat5 cable with 2 pairs of wires twisted in parallel for both Tx and Rx used for MS/TP.

    I've seen allot of stupid $hit and go on and on, but the point is if the network will or won't work on paper there's little chance of getting it to work in the wild.

    just my $0.02

    keep up the good work
    In case of malfunction-Reconnect brain BEFORE starting mouth.

  6. #19
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    I hear you on the network documentation. I have all of that in Excel but there was no graphical representation so I drew up the network diagram real quick. I'll update it for the client in the future and upload it here then.

    kontrol out
    "Good" - Jocko
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora Watch it here!

  7. #20
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    Wireshark kinda reminds me of fiddler, same idea but I take it wireshark is tracking a particular wire?
    The guru has awoken

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by psehunter View Post
    Wireshark kinda reminds me of fiddler, same idea but I take it wireshark is tracking a particular wire?
    Yep that's it. Used to track wires, like DiddleDiddle.

    kontrol out
    "Good" - Jocko
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora Watch it here!

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoPilot View Post
    I like to know from the top down all the Device IDs, network connections (ethernet, UDP, MS/TP) with network numbers, MAC address of each device and locations of terminators.
    Wouldn't we all. Reality coming into an unknown network, there is a snowball's chance in hell your going to have all that information. What's your plan B?

    You could spend days getting all the details or hours finding real issues.

    Most issues are stupid simple. That said if trouble shooting goes past one day, its time to whip out more advance techs or tools. With the right tools its a quick diagnosis.
    Last edited by orion242; 05-19-2018 at 10:52 PM.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  10. #23
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    I firmly believe a Building Owner or Building Management should keep all the system documentation for his/her building handy for the system users.

    Now I'm sure most control guys on this board have come across the PC in the corner closet covered with dust and fur balls, neglected and seriously in need of upgrade.

    Or when the building management decides to promote the head janitor to chief engineer (this saves them considerable coin) the skill sets required tend to be lacking a bit. They go from users to Lusers.

    Plan B you ask. I have and use tools similar to those described in this thread for BACnet systems. LON is a different story. If the customer doesn't have the documentation or information needed to solve HIS/HER problem, we call that billable time and quote our hourly rate.

    We're very busy so we tend to charge a little more than our competition. When the competitors fail they call back.
    Around here it happens more than you think.

    In most cases by the time we're done, we know all the political, mechanical, electrical, DDC, programing and system problems. Give them a report on all the issues they need to fix. Then allow them to decide tear down, renovate, upgrade or abandon what ever the problem is they have.

    Our biggest problem is finding good technicians. Kids these days are lazy in my opinion. They don't have anywhere near the skills needed to understand the topics discussed in this thread. And they think they should get paid top dollar. All the while we're concerned they will get their ass electrocuted on a VFD some place and collect TDI for the rest of their life.

    I think KontrolPhreak is doing a great job. I wish I had more time to spend doing something like this. But, I need to go back to work now.
    Last edited by AutoPilot; Yesterday at 02:27 PM. Reason: can't type
    In case of malfunction-Reconnect brain BEFORE starting mouth.

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