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  1. #1
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    Need help with a Cleveland steamer

    Hello fellow technicians, this is my first post here. I have a refrigeration background but I recently took a job fixing all kitchen equipment for the local public schools. The unit in question is a 24CEM48 with a boiler underneath two steaming cabinets that also provides steam for an adjacent kettle. I replaced the boiler due to a hand-hole leak that just wouldn't quit and ever since, the boiler will randomly stop heating and the orange "heat" light comes on. So my lunch ladies are going to the steamer where they set a timer and finding the heat off and the food not cooked. I've inspected and cleaned the water level probes. I've replaced the water-level control board. Still, the problem persists. I have suspected the high limit pressure control so I moved it closer to 15 psi and lowered the operating control to 8 psi. The operating control could be sticking but I've watched this thing work for hours and boiler pressure never goes above 10 psi. Also, it has never shut down while I'm watching it (so frustrating). Problem still persists. I turned my attention to the little lock-in relay because it could cause my symptoms. I moved the wires to the unused side of the relay. Problem still persists. So here I am. Seems like it has to be one of a few things: transformer dropping out, relay coil dropping out, operating control sticking closed, or the thing really is running out of water somehow. I feel like I might be missing something because I'm so inexperienced. Can anyone think of something else that could cause the boiler to need to be reset? Any tips on checking these components for intermittent failures? Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Im not familiar with this equipment.

    What determines the time from button press (on) to end of cycle (off)? Just the timer? I'd start there.
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    Experience - knowing when to get the hell out of the way and plug your ears. "Don't be a sissy. Turn it on!"

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  3. #3
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    Welcome!

    That boiler was real good time, wasn’t it.

    When the lunch ladies find the amber light on what steps exactly do they take to turn the unit back on?

    It sounds like you’ve been pretty thorough in your troubleshooting. It also sounds like this is a very fast, momentary, issue. Like a set of contacts briefly opening up and then closing again. But that’s all it takes to make the reset light come on.

    One time I was replacing a part another tech had ordered on this same model. The tech ordered the Warrick water probe. Not the extensions that the water actually touches, just the piece that screws into the boiler amd extension mounts to. I thought to myself, “what was that guy thinking? Why is he replacing what is essentially a steel rod wrapped in nylon? What could be wrong with it”. When I pulled it out it looked fine and when I ohmed it out it was ok too. But if I moved it ever so slightly the ohm reading would rise and then open. I cut the nylon off and found the steel rod was actually cracked and rusted inside the nylon sleeve. Pretty wired because it’s not a moving part nor it is stressed in any way. You might have the same problem.

    Unfortunately I think you might have to systematically replace the components that are suspect. I don’t normally just replace parts without confirming they have failed but in this case you might have to. Hopefully someone comes along that can help you better than I can so you don’t have to go down that expensive road.

  4. #4
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    It's been YEARS since I've worked on one of those.

    Sounds like the problem is all about sensing the water, since IF the water level drops below the lower water probe, the ice cube relay de-energizes and the amber light of the reset switch comes back on. Therefore, one of two things is happening:

    • The water isn't getting replenished when it should, or...
    • The lower water probe signal is being lost arbitrarily



    Before replacing any parts, methodically go through the relevant wiring and components. Look for loose or corroded connections, bad wire crimps. Scrutinize your ground connections, since they're half the sensing circuit.

    By the way, how's your water quality? Is it treated in some way? I'm no water expert, but if the water is TOO pure, it may be near a point that it won't reliably carry a signal the water control board sends out through the probes, water and ground.

    You probably already have this, but here's the service manual just in case you don't:
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  5. #5
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by VanMan812 View Post
    Welcome!

    That boiler was real good time, wasn’t it.

    When the lunch ladies find the amber light on what steps exactly do they take to turn the unit back on?

    It sounds like you’ve been pretty thorough in your troubleshooting. It also sounds like this is a very fast, momentary, issue. Like a set of contacts briefly opening up and then closing again. But that’s all it takes to make the reset light come on.

    One time I was replacing a part another tech had ordered on this same model. The tech ordered the Warrick water probe. Not the extensions that the water actually touches, just the piece that screws into the boiler amd extension mounts to. I thought to myself, “what was that guy thinking? Why is he replacing what is essentially a steel rod wrapped in nylon? What could be wrong with it”. When I pulled it out it looked fine and when I ohmed it out it was ok too. But if I moved it ever so slightly the ohm reading would rise and then open. I cut the nylon off and found the steel rod was actually cracked and rusted inside the nylon sleeve. Pretty wired because it’s not a moving part nor it is stressed in any way. You might have the same problem.

    Unfortunately I think you might have to systematically replace the components that are suspect. I don’t normally just replace parts without confirming they have failed but in this case you might have to. Hopefully someone comes along that can help you better than I can so you don’t have to go down that expensive road.
    Changing a boiler by yourself as one of your first ever tasks on cooking equipment is not recommended. I survived it though. When they see the amber light, they just hit that button again and it locks in and starts heating again. Good call on the Warrick probe. I can't even remember if I changed them with the new boiler or just the extensions but that would certainly do it. I'll pull the lower probe after lunch and ohm the begesus out of it. I hate to change parts that I'm not certain are defective but it may come to that. Thanks for your reply.


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  6. #6
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by ECtofix View Post
    It's been YEARS since I've worked on one of those.

    Sounds like the problem is all about sensing the water, since IF the water level drops below the lower water probe, the ice cube relay de-energizes and the amber light of the reset switch comes back on. Therefore, one of two things is happening:

    • The water isn't getting replenished when it should, or...
    • The lower water probe signal is being lost arbitrarily



    Before replacing any parts, methodically go through the relevant wiring and components. Look for loose or corroded connections, bad wire crimps. Scrutinize your ground connections, since they're half the sensing circuit.

    By the way, how's your water quality? Is it treated in some way? I'm no water expert, but if the water is TOO pure, it may be near a point that it won't reliably carry a signal the water control board sends out through the probes, water and ground.

    You probably already have this, but here's the service manual just in case you don't:
    No danger of the water being too pure. I put a little filter on it with the new boiler but it's still a pipeline of rocks coming in. Legendary hard water here. I will check all electrical connections with special attention to the grounds. And thanks for the manual because I didn't actually have it.


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  8. #7
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    I had a similar problem once on my 36CGM1200 steamer or whatever it is. Cleveland as well.

    The guy I spoke to was a guy from Tech support, his name was Michael C. He told me they had an issue in this boiler with the water sloshing on the water safety A.K.A the float that was in the boiler (yes, I have a high & low limit probe) and the water would "bounce" or something like that and it would cause the float to "bob" down for just a second and come back up, but that would slap that amber light right back on. Drove me nuts, spoke to him, he explained it to me and they have a timer kit for it http://www.partstown.com/cleveland/cle107234

    Worked like a charm and never had a problem with it since. Piece of cake to install.

    Double check your boiler, there should be 2 probes, 1 high and low and then on the right side, a float switch, just make sure yours actually has one but I am pretty sure it does.

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  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivero View Post
    I had a similar problem once on my 36CGM1200 steamer or whatever it is. Cleveland as well.

    The guy I spoke to was a guy from Tech support, his name was Michael C. He told me they had an issue in this boiler with the water sloshing on the water safety A.K.A the float that was in the boiler (yes, I have a high & low limit probe) and the water would "bounce" or something like that and it would cause the float to "bob" down for just a second and come back up, but that would slap that amber light right back on. Drove me nuts, spoke to him, he explained it to me and they have a timer kit for it http://www.partstown.com/cleveland/cle107234

    Worked like a charm and never had a problem with it since. Piece of cake to install.

    Double check your boiler, there should be 2 probes, 1 high and low and then on the right side, a float switch, just make sure yours actually has one but I am pretty sure it does.
    I’ve never seen that float before. Looks like it’s only necessary in certain states. That could definitely be this issue with this unit if it has one.

    So what exactly makes that kit cost so much? It looks like a 4x4 deep JB with a little nipple. What’s inside?


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  11. #9
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    Also check the tubing for blockage running to the gauge and the two pressure switches. I had blockage on the gauge side and it was showing the wrong pressure. The low water float is only required by some states. I'm in California which requires boilers to have this.

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanMan812 View Post
    I’ve never seen that float before. Looks like it’s only necessary in certain states. That could definitely be this issue with this unit if it has one.

    So what exactly makes that kit cost so much? It looks like a 4x4 deep JB with a little nipple. What’s inside?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah, could be he doesen't even have it but it sounds EXACTLY like the problem I was having, even the same colour switch!

    I have no idea what makes the kit so expensive, all that's inside is a timer, delays it by some seconds or minutes I believe.

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