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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    Check out ITpro.tv as well. They have great courses on networking, using nmap, wireshark, securing windows etc, all apply to BMS these days. Most start off basic enough but dive in pretty deep. Hours and hours of IT related topics and prep courses for various IT certs. If you do think about signing up, look around there are plenty of discount codes out there. Apps for roku, andorid, iphone, as well. Good service IMO.
    THANKS
    Keep it simple to keep it cool!

  2. #15
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    Mar 2005
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    My big IT hurdle to pass at moment is port forwarding for remote access to webserver and communication tools , tying sites together. BBMD etc
    Keep it simple to keep it cool!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    USA
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    Next discount code i hear i'll post it.

    They advertise on twit.tv constantly.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  4. Likes stanbyyourword liked this post
  5. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    What? Who? Where?
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    What about a course to train the specifying engineers not to use CTRL-C and CTRL-V?

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  6. Likes joey791, orion242 liked this post
  7. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by kontrolphreak View Post
    What about a course to train the specifying engineers not to use CTRL-C and CTRL-V?

    kontrol out
    Nah, I like specs that require a PC with Windows XP and a 17" monitor.

  8. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
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    The largest training need right now is HVAC basics. Too many times we've seen techs/programmers with IT-related backgrounds try and transition to the controls industry and fail miserably. Not saying that they all fail, but a good portion that transition without any HVAC training we've seen make pretty critical, costly errors.

    One of us taught Intro to DDC at a local JC. Most of the students had good HVAC background and there was little learning curve to understand basic controls logic.

    On the opposite end, we've seen multiple instances where an ex-IT tech has -

    - Blown up air handlers (Closing all the dampers with the supply fan on)
    - Manipulated incorrect setpoints in a VAV to solve a service issue while unknowingly causing 10X more issues elsewhere
    - Disabling/altering vital SAT/DSP setpoint algorithms to fix one service issue while unknowingly causing 10X more issues elsewhere

    Basic HVAC knowledge and how it relates to BMS would be the ideal training class for new techs/programmers.

  9. Likes stanbyyourword, loopypid, jbmoore5 liked this post
  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Louisburg Kansas
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    Most engineering firms think they are above and are not open to being educated by contractors.

  11. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Near Philly
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    539
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    Well here I am, I was trained by the US Air Force for refrigeration when I was twenty years old, today I'm 56. I've been in the HVAC business the entire time, controls since the mid 90s. I work for a commercial/industrial HVAC service company. The company is owned by a larger mechanical contractor company. My role is to support the mechanical contractor with control solutions to package a turn key operation and price. One of my sons worked with our company from high school graduation until last summer, 5 years in total. The last two years he has committed to a HVAC technical program, which I agreed to pay for. Last summer he was approached and accepted an offer from a HVAC control company in our area. I know the owner and have contracted him, and he has contracted me as well. They have giving some training, it's been random at best. I've refused to give him any training until he completes the HVAC courses, which will end in mid-June. I know sometimes I sound a little hard ass about this kind of stuff. But, if don't have an idea how the stuff is fundamentally supposed to work, how could ever program it? I see the term "system integrator" I hate it. Makes it sound like you just import a file into a supervisory controller and your done. So far from the truth. First, you have find the manufacturers proper documentation. Then decipher which points are relevant to the system you have. Then decide which points are relevant and necessary for the end user. Then decode all of the enumerations of the manufacturer, after that try to condense it all into the smallest points structure as possible. I'm starting to rant, I'll leave at that.
    ,

  12. Likes Paulie_la liked this post
  13. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    What? Who? Where?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechdorn View Post
    Well here I am, I was trained by the US Air Force for refrigeration when I was twenty years old, today I'm 56. I've been in the HVAC business the entire time, controls since the mid 90s. I work for a commercial/industrial HVAC service company. The company is owned by a larger mechanical contractor company. My role is to support the mechanical contractor with control solutions to package a turn key operation and price. One of my sons worked with our company from high school graduation until last summer, 5 years in total. The last two years he has committed to a HVAC technical program, which I agreed to pay for. Last summer he was approached and accepted an offer from a HVAC control company in our area. I know the owner and have contracted him, and he has contracted me as well. They have giving some training, it's been random at best. I've refused to give him any training until he completes the HVAC courses, which will end in mid-June. I know sometimes I sound a little hard ass about this kind of stuff. But, if don't have an idea how the stuff is fundamentally supposed to work, how could ever program it? I see the term "system integrator" I hate it. Makes it sound like you just import a file into a supervisory controller and your done. So far from the truth. First, you have find the manufacturers proper documentation. Then decipher which points are relevant to the system you have. Then decide which points are relevant and necessary for the end user. Then decode all of the enumerations of the manufacturer, after that try to condense it all into the smallest points structure as possible. I'm starting to rant, I'll leave at that.
    ,
    Amen brother, amen!

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  14. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    20
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    I have asked you many questions in the past and you have been very helpful, I now have one more question for you. I have flipped a ALC system over to Delta via bacnet routers via IP that are wired into ZN341v over MSTP. I now notice that some points are not visible on the Delta work-site computer(AI1 reads fine but AI2,AI3 and so on does not appear on screen) Is there a way to make those points visible? If so how do I do it?

    Paul

  15. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    20
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    I have asked you many questions in the past and you have been very helpful, I now have one more question for you. I have flipped a ALC system over to Delta via bacnet routers via IP that are wired into ZN341v over MSTP. I now notice that some points are not visible on the Delta work-site computer(AI1 reads fine but AI2,AI3 and so on does not appear on screen) Is there a way to make those points visible? If so how do I do it?

    Paul

  16. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Queensland
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    Coming from a mechanical (HVAC-R) background I'd actually appreciate an IT course tailored to our industry so far as that may be possible.
    I find it's a bit like the old Land Rover motto - making mechanics out of owners since 1948! lol

    I'd also like someone to teach installers that faults should fail safe - i.e. OPEN circuit, not give me a closed cct. signal on fail! Of course that preference is coming from my experience on things like compressor safeties.

    And can you also teach manufacturers to write technical English (or whatever the local language happens to be) in a clear manner? I honestly cannot count how many hours we lose trying to decipher documentation!!

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  18. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    same background and couldn't agree more


    Quote Originally Posted by FreezerGeezer View Post
    Coming from a mechanical (HVAC-R) background I'd actually appreciate an IT course tailored to our industry so far as that may be possible.
    I find it's a bit like the old Land Rover motto - making mechanics out of owners since 1948! lol

    I'd also like someone to teach installers that faults should fail safe - i.e. OPEN circuit, not give me a closed cct. signal on fail! Of course that preference is coming from my experience on things like compressor safeties.

    And can you also teach manufacturers to write technical English (or whatever the local language happens to be) in a clear manner? I honestly cannot count how many hours we lose trying to decipher documentation!!
    Keep it simple to keep it cool!

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