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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    And this right here folks, is why I refuse to do PM's anymore.
    Yes, especially when the Schrader core sticks after removing your gauges.

  2. #15
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    If you do decide to use nitrogen for leak testing at least take the opportunity to convert the refrigerant to a cheaper alternative. R-22 is going out and the price is going up.
    I didn't realize my system could be converted using existing equipment. Is that possible? Or are you suggesting to replace my old equipment with new equipment that runs on the newer stuff?

    How do I ask for them to send out the 'real' tech? Do I need to bribe the dispatcher?

  3. #16
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    Dec 2002
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    Houston,Tx.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB Cool View Post
    Yes, especially when the Schrader core sticks after removing your gauges.
    You were reading my mind on one of reasons.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". -Vernon Law-

    "Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap, Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled" - Unknown


  4. #17
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    Aug 2002
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    Southold, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
    I didn't realize my system could be converted using existing equipment. Is that possible? Or are you suggesting to replace my old equipment with new equipment that runs on the newer stuff?

    How do I ask for them to send out the 'real' tech? Do I need to bribe the dispatcher?
    It's a little more involved then just adding the new stuff but worth it in the long run.

    As far as a real tech? like anything else you have to weed thru the muck until you find one.

  5. #18
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    May 2017
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    Thread Starter
    Called a few places to ask about leak detection and r22 refills.

    For leak detection, here is what a few different ones offered:
    1st call - company offered a free check as a second opinion with a leak detector. Did not recommend dye as they said it can make flow regulators stick. Can also give estimates for repair/replace during visit.
    2nd call - company charges a standard leak detection fee (half service call, half labor charge) - said they use detector or bubble method, not dye. Like #1, can also give estimate for repair/replace.
    3rd call - company charges a standard leak detection fee (a little more than #2) using detector and could give repair options. This would be a tech not a sales person. Their techs do not do sales, only repair. I would have to make separate appointment with sales for replacement options.

    Also, during my calls I asked about r22 refills just to have the pricing in advance. One company I spoke to (that had already checked my r22 pressure as a second opinion about 2 weeks) offered to come out and recheck the pressure since it had been 2 weeks. If the pressure hadn't changed in 2 weeks, they said I could roll the dice and try adding r22 and see how long it lasts. They wouldn't make any guarantees of course - full caveat in effect as they couldn't predict how bad the leak would be. They did say that I should consider adding leak stop to seal up any possible small leaks if I am spending the money on r22 to help not waste it all.

    What's the opinion on leak stop and adding some during a recharge?


    Another had a standard truck/labor charge for leak detection.

  6. #19
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    Dec 2002
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    Houston,Tx.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
    they said I could roll the dice and try adding r22 and see how long it lasts. They wouldn't make any guarantees of course - full caveat in effect as they couldn't predict how bad the leak would be.
    Why would it really matter how bad the leak is? A leak is a leak, and needs to be addressed, by finding and repairing, or changing the part that's leaking. R-22 is not cheap, let me ask you this, if you had a leak in your wallet and it was leaking your money, wouldn't you fix or replace your wallet? As expensive as R-22 is, most of us would probably loose less money if our wallets were leaking.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". -Vernon Law-

    "Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap, Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled" - Unknown


  7. #20
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    Why would it really matter how bad the leak is? A leak is a leak, and needs to be addressed, by finding and repairing, or changing the part that's leaking. R-22 is not cheap, let me ask you this, if you had a leak in your wallet and it was leaking your money, wouldn't you fix or replace your wallet? As expensive as R-22 is, most of us would probably loose less money if our wallets were leaking.
    Maybe I am looking at it wrong but I was considering the cost factor of recharging the system versus replacing it. If a new system cost is amortized over its expected life, then I can compare that annual estimated cost (emphasis on estimated) to the annual real cost of recharging the system. Plus if leak stop is able to slow or stop the leaking than I've pushed the cost out even further.

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
    If a new system cost is amortized over its expected life, then I can compare that annual estimated cost (emphasis on estimated) to the annual real cost of recharging the system. Plus if leak stop is able to slow or stop the leaking than I've pushed the cost out even further.
    I understand, I hear this from a lot of customers, but it doesn't bother you, that you might end up putting possibly 20 to 25% of the cost into replacing the part that is leaking, in refrigerant, then later you decide to replace the coil? If you don't have the dollars to change the coil now, unless your expecting a big bonus, or winning the lotto, whats makes you think you might be better off to replace it later on down the line? These are just some of the thoughts I bring up to my customers, because most for some reason seem to believe, just fill it up Bill, and it won't leak out again, then a couple months and lots of dollars later they're calling me back.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". -Vernon Law-

    "Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap, Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled" - Unknown


  9. #22
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    May 2017
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    Thread Starter
    I noticed some water droplets on the front of the evap coil near the drain line and also saw that water had dripped down onto the air filter yesterday. So I called for a tech to check the drain pan/line thinking it was backed up. The company is the same as the first one who found a leak but they sent a different tech this time. This new guy was not familiar with the first diagnosis so he wanted to go through all the steps. First he checked the freon pressure and it was between 30-35 psi. Then he opened up the evap coil with the system off and there was ice on the lines. The prior two times the evap coil was checked there was not ice on the lines or the coil. Here is a pic:

    Name:  iced coil.jpg
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    You can't see in the picture but the ice was thickest on the lower left and lower right sides. He wanted to check for a leak in the evap coil but wanted to defrost the ice first by running fan only, then trying heat for a few minutes and then finally a blow dryer. Then with the ice mostly gone, he used an electronic leak detector and it buzzed a lot near the lines on the lower left side and buzzed some on the lower right side (both locations where the ice was the thickest. Here is a pic of the lower left side near the drain lines where his detector sounded off the most.

    Name:  leak spot.jpg
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    The tech felt that since the combination of metals used in the 12yo Trane coil and the rust, that the evap coil was in need of replacement. He did not want to recharge it and add any leak stop. He said their company does not use it as leak stop can block up the compressor and may not plug all the leaks. He recommended replacement. If I want to try the leak stop, I will have to use someone else.

  10. #23
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    Aug 2002
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    Southold, NY
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    Damn good chance that coil is shot.

    A real tech could tell

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Damn good chance that coil is shot.

    A real tech could tell
    Well this guy did say to replace at least the evap coil due to age and rust. Not sure if that is what you meant by a real tech being able to tell. Should he have looked at something else? Perhaps there were more technical details that he didn't share with me.

    He also suggested not investing thousands in a new evap coil and r22 and just getting a new system all together.

  12. #25
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    Aug 2002
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    Isolate and pressure test.

    Convert the system to one of several replacements for R22

  13. #26
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Isolate and pressure test.
    No one has offered that yet. It seems that once they get a hit on their electronic detector knowing that the pressure is down they are done checking for leaks. Then they move on to repair and replace. Is it possible a pressure test could prove there is not a leak in the evap coil? If not there, then it is somewhere else I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Convert the system to one of several replacements for R22
    No one has offered up a conversion solution. It has been either replace coil and charge with r22 or get a new evap/condensor combo or whole new system. Perhaps the cost of a conversion along with having to replace the evap coil is not as cost effective as the replacement options they offered.

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