R-12 Manitowok drop in...

[troywoodall]

Hi guys. I'm trying to find a decent (economical) refer replacement for an old Manitowok r12 ice machine. I'd like to be able to use the same oil if at all possible. any suggestions?

[DoctorIce]

I've had good luck with R-414B. Most use R-409A.

[troywoodall]

I've had good luck with R-414B. Most use R-409A.

So you usually get good yeild and no probs with defrost using r414b? Why do you prefer it over the 409?

[ice-LI]

I've had good luck with R-414B. Most use R-409A.

I second the 414 b i use it for all of my r-12 applications and you can use it with ab and poe oils. no probs I have come across

[balzano]

Hi guys. I'm trying to find a decent (economical) refer replacement for an old Manitowok r12 ice machine. I'd like to be able to use the same oil if at all possible. any suggestions?

use 414B, but you should charge it liquide, because this is a mix of many other gas, and it should be in liquide, to have the equal mix for 414b.

[primmers]

r-12..

[icemeister]

The only R12 replacement refrigerant approved by Manitowoc is R401A (MP39):

http://www.manitowocice.com/document...12_to_MP39.pdf

Manitowoc prescribes one oil change to AB oil, but I believe that was based on DuPont's original stance that all MP39 retrofits required a minimum of 50%AB/MO mix. DuPont has since reversed that and now agree that no oil change is needed for most applications.

I've done two E-Series machines with oil changes to AB and several more with no oil change and had no compressor failures on any of them, so I don't feel an oil change is needed.

Manitowoc does require an expansion valve change however when using MP39 (except for the A-0100 machine). I tried one retrofit at the shop using the original TEV and had a flooding problem and subsequent slow harvests.

This replacement valve (P/N 83-6755-3) is an adjustable Alco and I would suggest using it even if you're converting with Hot Shot or one of the others. It will give you a better chance of getting the superheat closer to normal R12 operation.

It really hard to believe though that there are any R12 machines left out there.

[primmers]

oh there out there, which is why i carry r12 on my truck..
txv,oil..my customers dont want a 20 year old machine rebuilt,
they want it running..

[Special-K]

I tried several of the blends in R-12 ice machines years ago and didn't have much luck. The biggest problem was defrost, there just didn't seem to be enough hot gas available to release the ice. And due to the glide factor, there will be some inconsistency in the bridge thickness.

R-409 worked the best for me, but still not good. R-414 will be worse due to it's capacity loss at those evap temps.

A Manitowac of that age has probably lost much of the evap plating and is already struggling to harvest properly. Retrofitting to a blend will likely make that worse.

I'd steer clear if I was you, they need to buy a new ice machine.

[SBEC]

I've been using R414b for many years. I've had good success using it. Chemically its very similar to 409 , the percentages of R124, 142, and 22 differ and 414 has isobutane. Icor recommends charging R414 85% what the R12 charge was. Another plus for R414 is its approved for mobile use. I use it in 3 of my vehicles I find it performs much better than 134a.

[troywoodall]

I think we are going to give the Hot Shot a try. This system is basically a trainer, and we're not to worried about yeild, I'm just a little worried about the discharge temp and not being enough for harvest. Guess we'll find out!

[pecmsg]

For my own curiosity how old is this machine?

[beachtech]

all the 12 machines in my area are using 409

and i think most 502 machines have been switched to 404

[troywoodall]

For my own curiosity how old is this machine?

I won't see the machine again till monday, I'll let you know then.

[jpsmith1cm]

I'd be wiling to bet that somebody in your area has a stockpile of R-12.

If this machine is being used as a trainer at an accreditied training facility, then you might be able to convince a local contractor to part with a couple of pounds of the white stuff.

It is still legal to use. It is the BEST choice. Today, the stuff is basically WORTHLESS to most contractors because retrofits or replacements are the rule rather than the exception.

[primmers]

I'd be wiling to bet that somebody in your area has a stockpile of R-12.

If this machine is being used as a trainer at an accreditied training facility, then you might be able to convince a local contractor to part with a couple of pounds of the white stuff.

It is still legal to use. It is the BEST choice. Today, the stuff is basically WORTHLESS to most contractors because retrofits or replacements are the rule rather than the exception.

thank you..i use it as i said..i cant see spending 1/2 a day screwing around with some junk freon on a old machine that ran great for 20+ years .
why change it out when if all you had was a freon leak?? who are you doing a favor?? it sure isnt the customer..