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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    62

    R-12 Manitowok drop in...

    Hi guys. I'm trying to find a decent (economical) refer replacement for an old Manitowok r12 ice machine. I'd like to be able to use the same oil if at all possible. any suggestions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    259
    I've had good luck with R-414B. Most use R-409A.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorIce View Post
    I've had good luck with R-414B. Most use R-409A.
    So you usually get good yeild and no probs with defrost using r414b? Why do you prefer it over the 409?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    rocky point long island n.y.
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorIce View Post
    I've had good luck with R-414B. Most use R-409A.

    I second the 414 b i use it for all of my r-12 applications and you can use it with ab and poe oils. no probs I have come across

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by troywoodall View Post
    Hi guys. I'm trying to find a decent (economical) refer replacement for an old Manitowok r12 ice machine. I'd like to be able to use the same oil if at all possible. any suggestions?
    use 414B, but you should charge it liquide, because this is a mix of many other gas, and it should be in liquide, to have the equal mix for 414b.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,399
    r-12..

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,486
    The only R12 replacement refrigerant approved by Manitowoc is R401A (MP39):

    http://www.manitowocice.com/document...12_to_MP39.pdf

    Manitowoc prescribes one oil change to AB oil, but I believe that was based on DuPont's original stance that all MP39 retrofits required a minimum of 50%AB/MO mix. DuPont has since reversed that and now agree that no oil change is needed for most applications.

    I've done two E-Series machines with oil changes to AB and several more with no oil change and had no compressor failures on any of them, so I don't feel an oil change is needed.

    Manitowoc does require an expansion valve change however when using MP39 (except for the A-0100 machine). I tried one retrofit at the shop using the original TEV and had a flooding problem and subsequent slow harvests.

    This replacement valve (P/N 83-6755-3) is an adjustable Alco and I would suggest using it even if you're converting with Hot Shot or one of the others. It will give you a better chance of getting the superheat closer to normal R12 operation.

    It really hard to believe though that there are any R12 machines left out there.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,399
    oh there out there, which is why i carry r12 on my truck..
    txv,oil..my customers dont want a 20 year old machine rebuilt,
    they want it running..

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Near Atlanta, GA.
    Posts
    14,626
    I tried several of the blends in R-12 ice machines years ago and didn't have much luck. The biggest problem was defrost, there just didn't seem to be enough hot gas available to release the ice. And due to the glide factor, there will be some inconsistency in the bridge thickness.

    R-409 worked the best for me, but still not good. R-414 will be worse due to it's capacity loss at those evap temps.

    A Manitowac of that age has probably lost much of the evap plating and is already struggling to harvest properly. Retrofitting to a blend will likely make that worse.

    I'd steer clear if I was you, they need to buy a new ice machine.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    29
    I've been using R414b for many years. I've had good success using it. Chemically its very similar to 409 , the percentages of R124, 142, and 22 differ and 414 has isobutane. Icor recommends charging R414 85% what the R12 charge was. Another plus for R414 is its approved for mobile use. I use it in 3 of my vehicles I find it performs much better than 134a.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    62
    I think we are going to give the Hot Shot a try. This system is basically a trainer, and we're not to worried about yeild, I'm just a little worried about the discharge temp and not being enough for harvest. Guess we'll find out!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold.calm
    Posts
    6,354
    For my own curiosity how old is this machine?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    all the 12 machines in my area are using 409

    and i think most 502 machines have been switched to 404
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

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