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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    33

    VS Air Handler w/ Single Stage Compressor

    Well, I'm getting bids on a new HP system. Currently have a 20 year old 3 ton Heil 10 seer. Some have said:

    Option #1: single stage compressor with a standard Air Handler
    Option #2: single stage compressor with VS AirHandler
    Option #3: 2 stage compressor with VS air handler.

    I think option #3 is overkill for my application (VA) and too expensive. Someone else said unless you get a 2 stage compressor the VS air handler doesn't work to it's full capacity so it's a waste of money. I'm just starting my HP replacement process and every contractor has a different sotry/theory. This may just be my first post of questions so please bear with me. Any opinions? Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    east kansas
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    8,032
    Don't get the VS blower if you are looking at Goodman/Amana HP products. The way Goodman controls the VS is not compatible with a HP. (Goes to how the ramping profiles are iniated.)

    You can use a VS blower with a single stage HP if the inside coil has a TXV. Lennox uses a controler that is compatatible with a HP. I believe Trane does too, as well as most other brands.
    Beware of advice given by some guy on the Internet.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,156
    I'm not overly impressed with 2 stage outdoor units but definitely am sold on variable speed blowers. I'm on my second with a single stage heat pump. It's a basic 13 SEER pump that the VS blower brought up to 14 SEER. Got me $200 from the juice company. This brand's 14 SEER pump would rate at 15 SEER and 9 HSPF to qualify for the federal tax credit with VS inside.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    33
    i'm considering heil, lennox, trane and possibly Bryant and American Standard.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,058
    The VS blower is worth the money even with a single stage condenser.
    It still has the ability to remove more moisture from the air, then with a regular blower.

    Of course, if your area isn't humid, that doesn't matter.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk man View Post
    Don't get the VS blower if you are looking at Goodman/Amana HP products. The way Goodman controls the VS is not compatible with a HP. (Goes to how the ramping profiles are iniated.)
    Once again, completely wrong information. There is not one ioda of truth in this statement. The Goodman/Amana variable speed air handlers can be set to do anything any other brand of variable speed blower can do. There are unfortunately some in the HVAC industry who will never be great techs because of their brand bashing mentality.

    I personally would put my money in variable speed indoor blower, no matter the brand. For the most part, every brand can be controlled similarly and every brand is using the same basic variable speed components.

    Two stage is strictly for comfort and not for efficiency. Multi-staging should be the last thing to put money into for getting the most bang for your buck.

    If you are looking for a 14 SEER system and are being cost conscience, I would rather see a 13 SEER outdoor unit matched with a variable speed blower indoor unit which will in most cases achieve 14 SEER for cooling as well as save on energy for heating due the lower usage of electricity for variable speed blowers. This would be an all around better system then a 14 SEER outdoor unit with a standard PSC motor indoor blower unit.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
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    16,000
    Quote Originally Posted by cecilt View Post
    i'm considering heil, lennox, trane and possibly Bryant and American Standard.

    Well with the brands you listed above it appears money is no object, why not check into the the Frigidaire iQ Drive Complete-Comfort System, it's the smartest comfort system available. It does more than just provide the highest efficiency levels available today, it sets the standard with achievements up to 23 SEER. With this system, you get more than just energy savings, the iQ Drive provides consistent comfort levels through out your home by reducing your indoor humidity when you need it most.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    If you are looking for a 14 SEER system and are being cost conscience, I would rather see a 13 SEER outdoor unit matched with a variable speed blower indoor unit which will in most cases achieve 14 SEER for cooling as well as save on energy for heating due the lower usage of electricity for variable speed blowers. This would be an all around better system then a 14 SEER outdoor unit with a standard PSC motor indoor blower unit.
    I was considering a 14 Seer unit with the VS. Do you think it is better to just go with a 13 Seer since the VS gets you another SEER anyways? I was thinking a net 15 Seer if I got the 14 would just be more efficient. Thanks

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by cecilt View Post
    I was considering a 14 Seer unit with the VS. Do you think it is better to just go with a 13 Seer since the VS gets you another SEER anyways? I was thinking a net 15 Seer if I got the 14 would just be more efficient. Thanks
    If you are looking for as much efficiency as you can get and your budget allows for a 14 SEER outdoor unit, definitely go for the 14 SEER outdoor with the variable speed indoor unit for a total of 15 SEER rating.

    The 14 SEER outdoor unit will have at least a couple of features more then the 13 SEER unit will, so if it is within your budget, go for it.

    My main contention is that a variable speed blower would be my primary concern over more efficiency if the budget is too tight to have both a 14 SEER outdoor unit and variable speed indoor unit both.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    east kansas
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    8,032
    RoBo,

    What controls the ramping profiles on Goodman equipment?

    I know we have hammered this before. But the last time I set an Amana up the Goodman tech support rep told me "Y" controls ramping profiles. You have argued the same point also.

    So if "Y" controls ramping profiles there is no way I would set them with a HP. There will be high head problems during most if not all the heating season. I have also been told by Goodman reps not to set ramping profiles when I've fought high head problems in the field.

    Most other brands use "O" to control ramping profiles. This should be a DUH moment for your beloved Goodman and they should have changed their ways a long time ago. They got it wrong from the begining. Not surpising to me.

    So if a customer wants the better Goodman/Amana VS equipment they can not use the ramping profile with a HP. What is so hard to understand?

    So if one can not set ramping profile on Goodman AHing equipment coupled with a HP, why sell them one. Unless you return at the change of every season to set and turn off ramping profiles?
    Beware of advice given by some guy on the Internet.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk man View Post
    RoBo,

    What controls the ramping profiles on Goodman equipment?

    I know we have hammered this before. But the last time I set an Amana up the Goodman tech support rep told me "Y" controls ramping profiles. You have argued the same point also.

    So if "Y" controls ramping profiles there is no way I would set them with a HP. There will be high head problems during most if not all the heating season. I have also been told by Goodman reps not to set ramping profiles when I've fought high head problems in the field.

    Most other brands use "O" to control ramping profiles. This should be a DUH moment for your beloved Goodman and they should have changed their ways a long time ago. They got it wrong from the begining. Not surpising to me.

    So if a customer wants the better Goodman/Amana VS equipment they can not use the ramping profile with a HP. What is so hard to understand?

    So if one can not set ramping profile on Goodman AHing equipment coupled with a HP, why sell them one. Unless you return at the change of every season to set and turn off ramping profiles?
    Depending on whether you are dealing with a variable speed blower on a furnace or on an air handler, Y and O together determine heating speed. The Goodman/Amana controls work just like the Trane controls do. With a Honeywell IAQ stat, the Goodman/Amana variable speed blowers can be set up to behave the same as the Carrier Infinity system.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #12
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    Nov 2001
    Location
    east kansas
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Depending on whether you are dealing with a variable speed blower on a furnace or on an air handler, Y and O together determine heating speed. The Goodman/Amana controls work just like the Trane controls do. With a Honeywell IAQ stat, the Goodman/Amana variable speed blowers can be set up to behave the same as the Carrier Infinity system.

    Y & O together control heating speeds?

    Do you mean Y plus O will get heating speeds? Or Y and O are different inputs for different speeds?
    Beware of advice given by some guy on the Internet.

  13. #13
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk man View Post
    Y & O together control heating speeds?

    Do you mean Y plus O will get heating speeds? Or Y and O are different inputs for different speeds?
    On variable speed furnaces, Y and O are jumpered, just like on Trane units.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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