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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    4,264
    This should be awarded "Thread Of The Year". I'm loving it.
    There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action....Mark Twain

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Great Lakes Region
    Posts
    575
    I am not disputing that high supply low return is better than high supply high return. (Although I strongly agree a proper grille selection makes the difference very minor and a non factor) but It will be hard to convince me that I will save 50% on my heating gas/electric bill using high/low returns.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,376
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    More like, GC's won't pay for it.
    That is probably very true. Everyone is looking for the cheapest way to skin the cat but IMO it compromises the overall efficiency of the system too much and it's forever.

    Brian

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,879
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    That is probably very true. Everyone is looking for the cheapest way to skin the cat but IMO it compromises the overall efficiency of the system too much and it's forever.

    Brian
    A builder doesn't put more into the house then he is paid for.

    We can't afford to either.

    When builders actually pay for a high quality system, then that is what will be installed.

    Until then, the home buyer will suffer.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,376
    Quote Originally Posted by tinner73 View Post
    you've gotta post a pic of your revolutionary invention.
    There is nothing revolutionary about it. Simply build a box over the ceiling return and two chutes that go down the wall so it intakes off the floor – blocking air removal from the ceiling. I would get a photo of it if I thought you couldn’t picture it already.

    Brian

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    4,264
    I respect your opinion whether I agree with it or not. But two "chutes" framed in and going down the wall sounds a bit like an eyesore.
    There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action....Mark Twain

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    what no turning vanes????!... or radius throats?????
    what about the poorly designed duct systems you complain about?













    easily..best thread of the year......so far.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,376
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    A builder doesn't put more into the house then he is paid for.

    We can't afford to either.

    When builders actually pay for a high quality system, then that is what will be installed.

    Until then, the home buyer will suffer.
    I don not agree entirely. I do a lot of whole house remodel/renovations as well as window and door installations. The HO is required to spend a lot extra on insulation, waterproofing, dual pane, thermal protection, etc, which overall is necessary for a more efficient structure. This dual duct idea could easily be mandated as all the others were.

    Brian

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,879
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I don not agree entirely. I do a lot of whole house remodel/renovations as well as window and door installations. The HO is required to spend a lot extra on insulation, waterproofing, dual pane, thermal protection, etc, which overall is necessary for a more efficient structure. This dual duct idea could easily be mandated as all the others were.

    Brian
    If high and low returns are mandated.
    Then the home buyer pays the builder more, and the builder pays the HVAC company more.

    Still comes down to money.

    Your not running and finnishing that chase for free.
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  10. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,376
    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC Pro View Post
    I respect your opinion whether I agree with it or not. But two "chutes" framed in and going down the wall sounds a bit like an eyesore.
    It is. It was only built to prove a point. Now that the HO sees how her heater can work, even with a slightly restricted return, she can either put this contraption up every year or give up some closet space and bring it down properly.

    Brian

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,376
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    If high and low returns are mandated.
    Then the home buyer pays the builder more, and the builder pays the HVAC company more.

    Still comes down to money.

    Your not running and finnishing that chase for free.
    Good, charge them for it, make them pay even if they don't understand it. But my point is that the HVAC contractors, architects, and GC’s must understand it first before anyone can be mandated to pay for it.

    Brian

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,879
    You should try using the proper supplies first, before you have people pay for things they don't need.
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  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by ndshvac View Post
    I like motoguy it is all about the BTU's
    I believe in physics. Conservation of energy, warm air is less dense and therefore rises, air force out of a duct will generate a venturi effect and pull surrounding air with it.

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