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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Alabama
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    658
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    She said I should patent my device, it’s amazing.

    patent what device??? floor registers have been around a lot longer than you....
    You're only as good as your customer will allow you to be.........If they want junk, sell them junk, but make your junk look neat!!!

  2. #15
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    Jan 2004
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post

    I’m not willing to argue with a Manual D, but I would bet anyone who was willing to put money on it.

    Brian
    Thats good.

    Because it would be Manual T for register selection.

    Look at teh registers in those houses.
    You'll find they are more for cooling application, then they are for heating.
    And that is why they don't throw the heat down.

    Return placement, will help homes that have ceiling supplies that are not designed to throw air for heating.
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  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I have never read a Manual D nor am I an HVAC contractor
    enough said.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
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    5,520
    So if I'm using wall cavities as return plenums, woudl it be benficial to add low return for winter use? My opinon, is that with a low speed fan on most of hte time (VS furnace) it won't matter where the returns are because the air temp pretty evenly mixed.

    furnaces don't run more effeciently...at least not a 80% unit... just because the return air temp is 2 degrees cooler. It makes some difference, but overall the 80% can't increase effeciency much otherwise they would condense the exhaust, which would cause big chimney problems.

    The "genrnal contractor" is claiming that the furnace magically increases it's effeciency by 50% doing this. It might make a 10-20% improvement if hte house has high ceilings and it poorly insulated, but using ceiling fans or circulating the air wiht hte furnace would od hte same thing.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    3,730
    Quote Originally Posted by superd77 View Post
    patent what device??? floor registers have been around a lot longer than you....
    …and heaters used to always intake off the floor until someone about twenty- five years ago had the brilliant idea to intake off the ceiling.

    My “device” is a box that covers the ceiling return and has two chutes that run down the wall. It is temporary and is made of 3/4” Styrofoam and blue taped to the wall. The framing, ducting, and drywalling will come later.


    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Thats good.

    Because it would be Manual T for register selection.

    Look at teh registers in those houses.
    You'll find they are more for cooling application, then they are for heating.
    And that is why they don't throw the heat down.

    Return placement, will help homes that have ceiling supplies that are not designed to throw air for heating.
    I take notice of the registers in homes and I’ve never seen a register stir all the air in a room to adequately reduce stratification. It would require incredible flow or small rooms to achieve that. One similarity all the houses have is they are much colder near the ceiling return. That problem is eliminated with my device.

    BTW - Manual T or D, it doesn't take a book to figure this out, just a little common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinner73 View Post
    enough said.
    I’m not arguing the inner workings of a heating system, I’m talking about simple principles that any architect, structural engineer, HVAC contractor, or GC could comprehend. Your cheap shot doesn’t apply here.


    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    furnaces don't run more effeciently...at least not a 80% unit... just because the return air temp is 2 degrees cooler. It makes some difference, but overall the 80% can't increase effeciency much otherwise they would condense the exhaust, which would cause big chimney problems.

    The "general contractor" is claiming that the furnace magically increases it's effeciency by 50% doing this.
    There are two different kinds of efficiency to measure in a system:
    The heater unit efficiency, which is essentially the power (btus) required to change air temp. from its intake to the output (a factory spec.).

    Then there is the efficiency of the system, which is the amount of power (btus) required to heat the entire area. A flawed ducting system could ruin the efficiency of the system while not affecting the unit efficiency. Lowering the run-time by improved ductwork increases system efficiency.


    Brian

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422

    Hmm stick to putting up cabinets

    "One similarity all the houses have is they are much colder near the ceiling return."

    ..so say the space is at 70 degrees at the stat..5' above the floor. the air at the ceiling..3'-4' higher is what??...40 degrees?

    the air at the ceiling is probably 70.


    you will make a fortune with your "invention". you seem very intelligent.





    "Lowering the run-time by improved ductwork increases system efficiency." enough said.

  7. #20
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    Mar 2008
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    Long Beach, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinner73 View Post

    you seem very intelligent

    ...wish I could say the same. It's clearly over your head.

  8. #21
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    Jan 2004
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    My “device” is a box that covers the ceiling return and has two chutes that run down the wall. It is temporary and is made of 3/4” Styrofoam and blue taped to the wall. The framing, ducting, and drywalling will come later.

    Styrofoam in a return.
    Great way to spread toxic fumes if they ever have a fire.




    I take notice of the registers in homes and I’ve never seen a register stir all the air in a room to adequately reduce stratification. It would require incredible flow or small rooms to achieve that. One similarity all the houses have is they are much colder near the ceiling return. That problem is eliminated with my device.

    BTW - Manual T or D, it doesn't take a book to figure this out, just a little common sense.


    Brian
    The registers you see, are all for cooling, not heating.
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  9. #22
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
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    I thought that since heat rises, stratification occurs at the ceiling, so in winter or summer, you want to pull air from the ceiling. In that seceario, ideally the supply registers are located near the floor below the return so air flow in a circular patterns across the floor then up to the ceiling.

    With floor registers, I'm probably mostly relying on convection. It seems to work pretty well overall.

  10. #23
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    Jan 2004
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    PA
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    Your suppose choose your supply registers, wdeather floor, wall, ceiling or baseboard, to have a velocity, and throw, so that it pulls the surrounding room air with it, to mix the 2 airs.

    So that stratification would only be able to occur once the blower is not runnning.

    If you have stratification while the blower is running, you have the wrong supply registers.
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  11. #24
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Your suppose choose your supply registers, wdeather floor, wall, ceiling or baseboard, to have a velocity, and throw, so that it pulls the surrounding room air with it, to mix the 2 airs.

    So that stratification would only be able to occur once the blower is not runnning.

    If you have stratification while the blower is running, you have the wrong supply registers.
    I have never seen a register that would magically increase velocity and throw as to mix all the air in a room. Maybe you could provide a link.

    As a matter of fact, the more the air stratifies the better a floor return will work. It will then only remove the coldest of air, eventually removing it all and allowing the warmer ceiling air to reach the floor.

    Please explain how a “device” like mine works if floor returns are not a viable solution to stratification (and works irrespective to registers).

    Brian

  12. #25
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    Jan 2004
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    PA
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    I'm not arguing that having a low return doesn't improve room/house temp, in a house that has cooling bias ceiling registers.

    Please list the brand and model number of the last 100 different types of ceiling registers you have seen.

    How many of these actually had the air hitting the floor.

    Most areas, pretty much use the same 2 or 3 different types of supplies.

    A 10 x 12 x 8 room with a 80CFM register. Can have a complete air mix in 5 minutes.

    Styrofoam in a return is a fire and toxic fume hazzard. Use another material.
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  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    I'm not arguing that having a low return doesn't improve room/house temp, in a house that has cooling bias ceiling registers.

    So maybe we agree on this after all.

    Please list the brand and model number of the last 100 different types of ceiling registers you have seen.

    I've seen about ten different types depending on age, I'm sure you are familiar with them. But could you provide a link of the special type you refer to?

    Styrofoam in a return is a fire and toxic fume hazzard. Use another material.
    I've made them out of ply and MDF but this one is strictly temporary to prove a point. It will be removed in a few months. BTW, although it slightly restricts inflow, it is still a major improvement.

    Brian

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