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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by icy78 View Post
    78069 @35/9078069 @35/90




    http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5a0b2848...3GA%20perf.pdf

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    78069 @35/9078069 @35/90

    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    Your old compressor model number was approximately 8 nominal tons. I am not sure what your new compressor model number is. I would think that the smaller valve would work substantially better.

    http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5a0b2848...3GA%20perf.pdf

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    Well that didn't work.

    Anyhow, 78069 @35/90 I think it was.
    It was from Trane.com/cps/uploads/user......i forget the rest.lost my WiFi connection here.

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  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by icy78 View Post
    So the HGBE 5 is rated at 5.46 tons at 26f and 100 condensing.
    I'm thinking probably a 32-35f evap normally, dropping to as low as 28 during dehum with reheat.
    I don't have the compressor capacity at those conditions but it appears that valve would work.
    So that would be
    HGBE-5 -95/115 x 7/8

    The 8 and the 5 seem to be the only options for 410a.

    What say?

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    I say the HGBE-5 is the one you need. With 5.43 TR capacity at 40F SST and 100F SCT with R410A, it's pretty much on the money with a 6F temperature drop across it. It should be wide open at 32F with 100% bypass. The HGBE-8 capacity is five times that, so it's not even in the ball park...just like the valve that's installed now.

    (See p.40) http://sporlanonline.com/literature/misc/410A.pdf

    The original ADRPE-3 was sized similarly. The bypass capacity at 40F SST and 100F SCT with R22 is 5.99 TR, also with a 6F ΔP. You'll basically be copying the original valve capacity for the new system , so it should perform nearly identically as it did before.

    (See p.10) http://sporlanonline.com/literature/90/90-40.pdf

    Here's the Trane GP813-NN3-GA performance data sheet:
    http://www.trane.com/CPS/Uploads/Use...3GA%20perf.pdf

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  3. #55
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    So I'm missing something then. I thought I would start it opening at 32f and be wide open at, what would be 26f, if there were no. HGBP.

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  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by icy78 View Post
    So I'm missing something then. I thought I would start it opening at 32f and be wide open at, what would be 26f, if there were no. HGBP.

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    It just depends on what the require supply air temp is and where you set the valve to maintain that. I was basing it on 40F, so with a 6F ΔP you'd be 100% at a minimum 32F coil temp to avoid the possibility of icing, but 26F as a minimum works well in most cases too. You're correct that the if the valve is sized for 6F temperature drop, it starts to open 6F higher than the minimum temperature, where it would be 100% open and at its rated capacity.

    The Sporlan Bulletin 90-40 explains it well on p.1 in the section "Application". http://sporlanonline.com/literature/90/90-40.pdf

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  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    It just depends on what the require supply air temp is and where you set the valve to maintain that. I was basing it on 40F, so with a 6F ΔP you'd be 100% at a minimum 32F coil temp to avoid the possibility of icing, but 26F as a minimum works well in most cases too. You're correct that the if the valve is sized for 6F temperature drop, it starts to open 6F higher than the minimum temperature, where it would be 100% open and at its rated capacity.

    The Sporlan Bulletin 90-40 explains it well on p.1 in the section "Application". http://sporlanonline.com/literature/90/90-40.pdf
    As always icemeister, thanks for your help.
    You too jayguy.

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  6. #58
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    need to size the orfice in the hot gas tee

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by servicefitter View Post
    need to size the orfice in the hot gas tee
    Elaborate please

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  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by icy78 View Post
    Elaborate please

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    the ASC has an orifice too. it is also sized for the amount of hot gas being pushed through it so that it blends the liquid refrigerant and the hot gas refrigerant properly before distributing it to the evaporator. while it is less critical than a properly sized valve, it is still important. considering the misapplication of the original valve, i might also question the proper selection of the ASC.
    Don't step on my favorite part of the Constitution just to point out your favorite part.

    Political Correctness is forced on you because you have forgotten decency.

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    the ASC has an orifice too. it is also sized for the amount of hot gas being pushed through it so that it blends the liquid refrigerant and the hot gas refrigerant properly before distributing it to the evaporator. while it is less critical than a properly sized valve, it is still important. considering the misapplication of the original valve, i might also question the proper selection of the ASC.
    What do you wanna bet that the ASC is still the original one, sized for R22 and nobody knew to check it?

    That's not necessarily a serious problem though. You can have either a one-piece side connector type distributor or a two-piece. The two-piece ASC connects to the inlet the existing, standard distributor. If it is still the original and if we can assume it was initially installed properly...since it has worked OK all these years...it would have the nozzle relocated from the distributor body to the ASC. The nozzle sizing is the same for either the standard distributor or with the ASC.

    (See p.17-20) Sporlan Bulletin 90-20 Refrigerant Distributors

    The sizing for the nozzle for R410A would be just a tad bigger than the original R22 size, like 7 tons vs 6 tons (+17%), according to the Sporlan sizing charts. Also, since nozzle sizing isn't an exact science, with allowable load percentages from 50% to 200% loaded, I would't too concerned about being 17% over what worked.

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  10. #62
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    You bet correctly ice.
    I didn't even know what it was so I unsweated it and figured it out, so I installed it after the new txv .
    Remember now, this is all on Saturday and it must run Monday.
    Anyhow. I'll leave that one installed, and evaluate after the new bypass valve comes in.



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  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by icy78 View Post
    You bet correctly ice.
    I didn't even know what it was so I unsweated it and figured it out, so I installed it after the new txv .
    Remember now, this is all on Saturday and it must run Monday.
    Anyhow. I'll leave that one installed, and evaluate after the new bypass valve comes in.
    Now you'll know a side inlet distributor or ASC when you meet up with one.

    ...And you'll know to check the nozzle. The closeness of sizing for R22 to R410a isn't the norm, so it's prudent to see if what's in there can be re-used. Truth is...not many techs know to check the distributor nozzle on any job, not just one with an ASC installed. Now you do.

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  12. Likes icy78, BALloyd liked this post
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