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  1. #1

    PAYNE PH13 - pulling my hair out!

    Morning all! I have a question. Installed a PH13-2 1/2 ton heat pump back in AUG. 2008. All readings were good in the summer - good SH - SC - SAT - RAT. Now around the end of NOV. 08, customer calls and says the unit is not putting out heat. We live in the Williamsport, PA area, drove over to take a look at HP - OAT was 38 deg F - RH was 42% - SAT was 90 deg. F - RAT was 65 deg F. Home space temp is 67 deg F - True - suction pressure was 44 psi - HG discharge was 185 psi - HG line temp was 117 deg F - liquid line coming back from the evap was 77 deg F. Customer keeps bumping up stat (Honeywell TH8320) 67 deg F to 68 deg F to 69 deg F and then unit will run for ling periods of time. I asked the customer to set the stat at 67 - 68 deg F and let it go. Oh, this is a duel fuel oil - forced hot air system - I did find there were some supply vents the customer shut down off of main trunk which wasn't good - made those repairs - I have the CFM across the coil I need for the 2 1/2 ton unit. Oil burner is a UNI-CELL - mod# OBUA67-036 and did have A/C only - a 2 ton unit. When I went to size the new unit a took many things into consideration and even used a thermal imager to check for infiltration, which I did find some - this is why I went up to a 2 1/2 ton unit. According to all my readings (I have been to the customers home 3 Saturdays now - 8 hours (I stand behind my installs) - just going back over everything I done in the summer) and readings are where they should be. I explained to the customer long before the installation that this isn't his "oil heat" and not to expect those temperatures out of the supply vents. I even went as far as to ask him "are you sure" - and he concurred, "yes" so I went ahead with the installation (I have done several of these over the years - including my own with no issues). The location of the T-STAT was on the edge of a wall separating living room dining room and across from a supply vent - 10' to 12' away. I can see why the guy who done the original installation may have placed it there because I moved the new T-STAT to over the return and the indoor temp on the stat would drop down 1 to 2 deg while the system was running and never come up. I moved the stat back to original location - asked the customer to set stat to 67 or 68 deg F and unit would run and cycle but then the customer would move it to 69 deg F and the system would run and run. I feel the customer needs to set the T-STAT and let it alone - but that is not the case.
    Any comments would sure be appreciated. If you need more info I can supply it. THANKS ALL!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by subcooled; 01-04-2009 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    South Carolina
    you need to get pro membership and lets talk about this in the tech. forum

  3. #3
    sorry PAPA - new on this forum - just looking for an answer. How do I get there?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Hell Hole Swamp
    Sounds like he doesnt like heat pumps, tell him to live with the long run times and lower discharge temperatures or switch to the oil furnace

  5. #5
    Thanks swampfox - as I said I explained to the customer - several times prior to installation. Unit runs fine and cycles at 67 deg F - even at 25 -30 deg F OAT. I just think they were expecting something else from this system. Like I told the customer - the comcept of duel fuel is to cut back on using fossil fuel and not eliminate the use of oil all together. It kind of stinks when you start to second guess yourself!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    South Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by subcooled View Post
    sorry PAPA - new on this forum - just looking for an answer. How do I get there?
    it is under "site rules"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    What is the customers real complaint.

    Is it that the HP never shuts off.
    Or that the HP doesn't meet set point.
    Contractor locator map


    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    NC Coast
    Did you install electric heater package? I noticed 25 degrees across the coil. Pressures appear about normal at 38. Is it a two story house? Tstat on lwr level? R410A or R22? Cant remember what the PH13 is. 22 I believe.
    Silent Service........ Death From Below!

    Somewhere in Kansas, a town found a village idiot!

  9. #9
    At 38 a HP ain't all that great if you are used to oil heat, which is smokin hot.
    Personally I think heat pumps suck.
    Set it to shut off at 40-45 and kick on the back up heat.
    And don't tell the guy not to turn his stat up, that's ridiculous.
    Have fun, ya might have what we call "one of those."
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me!


    Bring Em Home....

  10. #10


    Diceman, This system has drove me up the wall and back down. The customer keeps pushing the stat - I told him to set it and let the system do its thing but he just will not let his hands off. This guy just had heart surgury and he tells me since he has been on blood thinner and all the other meds they give you for that - that he feels cold. Gee, I never thought that back when I sized the system to size it for that kind of situation - my screw up I guess. Anyway - I have a few items I need to check out - I'll need to pull the charge and we are to get 6" - 10" of snow tomorrow - how nice. I may try to put it off a few days or until next week end but something tells me I got so junk in my strainer, behind the piston retainer. I saw frost from there on out to the accumulater (unit was in HP mode) but before that the line was frost free. I had my wifes neph. helping me back in the summer and he may have "drug the line set" through the tan bark - or something. Who knows. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Howell, Michigan
    There is a link in my signature line for Professional Membership

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    I don't know
    General public's attitude towards our energy predicament: "I reject the reality of finite resource depletion and substitute it with my own; energy is infinite, we just need an alternative storage medium to run the cars on. The economy can grow indefinitely - we just need to "green" everything! Technology is energy! Peak what?"

  13. #13


    HEYBOB - I did try to apply for prof. membership - I was told "subcooled, why are you claiming 15 posts when you only have 4? Do not apply unless you qualify. Membership Committee".
    I did not understand the rules for this site - I thought this site was a place to go for answer - not greef.
    What is the proper steps to take?
    Thanks again, subcooled

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