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  1. #66
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    I have to agree with the above. Pay and benefits are king when you are working.

    There is one large and very popular Philly TV station that AFTRA has never been able to unionize. Why? There is no additional benefit for those folks with a union shop. Their pay and benefits are top notch, ever since Walter Annenburg's Triangle Publications owned the staion in the 1950's.

    There is a place for every kind of shop. For example, you could not unionize my current shop. The retail third party service broker situation could not suport a union cost structure.

    Sure, I would like the pay, the benefits, and the additional training I would get, but so far, that has not happened.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  2. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    So. I guess what I am saying is the reason I don't care, is because I really don't The best top cream of the crop guys don't concern themselves. The reason why, we don't need to. This is about geting something out of something for nothing. And most top guys know that, were not anything about that. We are just there for the money. And that shade of gray takes many forms. It's Union today, it's non union next. Or whatever.
    You sound like the kind of man who is only concerned about what you can take out of a company, about your personal gain, and forget about the company and coworkers that helped get you there. And definately- forget about assisting the next generation in their goals.
    Heck- you shoul have gotton an MBA and run an airline, insurance, or auto manufacturer, and got rich while you ran it (into the ground)
    mike

  3. #68
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    Thumbs down unions have wrecked this country

    It all boils down to socialism. Are you willing to sell your rights and become a wh*re? That's what being in a union is to me. They have sold their soul to the devil. I hear union guys bragging all the time about how much they make and how cushy their work rules & bennies are. Never mind this is wrecking the country. Why do you think the Big Three auto makers are busted? Because of the cost of labor. The economy cannot endure paying a production line worker or a city transit bus driver twice what a veteran Registered Nurse makes. Same for HVAC. Why bid a job with union labor that prices out exactly twice the cost of non-union with no appreciable gains in quality or completion. That's not me opinion, that's based upon facts by a relative who works for a major HVAC company and he negotiates large contracts.

    There simply is no justification for unions anymore. There are enough federal and state laws protecting workers if you just look. Hvacker mentioned safety. You don't need a union to blow a safety whistle. You have OSHA and the state to call and there are whistleblower laws to protect you.

    Once you are in a union, your career is on a set of rails. You will not advance but become an automaton and spend your life much like a toll taker in a booth doing the same job for 30 yrs. That's what unions want---drones, not free thinking motivated men. In a non-union shop, you are free to work your way up the ladder.

    Unions are thugs, pure and simple. I have been in a union and I have been a victim of union thugs. They are no different than terrorist. If you don't like their politics, they stomp you. Goons.

    Yes, I hate unions because of what they have become and what they are doing to our country. They have bankrupted us to the point we are on the verge of another depression. The function of a depression is to realign who makes what, including corp. execs. Sure, the exhorbitnant exec. bonuses would go the way of the passenger pigeon but labor, both skilled and unskilled would come back down to earth. As it stands, the big cities are all failing primarily due to unions with their labor costs, pensions and extreme bennies such as free legal. Also, it is very hard to fire a union employee for poor performance. However, if you break union rules, you are screwed out of a job so don't kid yourself into thinking unions make you bulletproof. I've seen unions get hard working people lose their jobs.

    The only ones who make out in unions are the ones who run unions. That is socialism. You union guys need to wake up or at least come out of the closet as socialists.

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikelcs View Post
    You sound like the kind of man who is only concerned about what you can take out of a company, about your personal gain, and forget about the company and coworkers that helped get you there. And definately- forget about assisting the next generation in their goals.
    Heck- you shoul have gotton an MBA and run an airline, insurance, or auto manufacturer, and got rich while you ran it (into the ground)
    I don't want to start a flame war, but I am not able to infer any of what you suggested from what he wrote.

    I have yet to meet the man who works from a position of sheer altruism. I insist that I do the best job I can, and that applies to whatever I am doing. I think most of us feel the same way, demanding more from ourselves than we would ever dream of expecting from others.

    When you are doing the best job you can do, you are well justified in seeking the best compensation package you can find. And that applies to either a union or a non-union position.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Obama and the democratic dominated congress were bought and paid for largely by unions.

    You don't think that there will be a quid pro quo?

    I do.

    This will be rammed through as law. Possibly under aspices of raising the standard of living for everyone by making it easier to unionize.

    In a recession, the sheeple will swallow it like they do everything else.
    Not very comforting, is it? This is the sort of thing that will cause violent reactions from those who feel that they have no legal recourse in protecting their rights.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #71
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    Without posting the whole quote from above, there is a great difference between collectivism (socialism) and collective bargaining.

    In Pennsylvania, for example, we have a law that puts non-union contractor employees on the same pay scale as their union counterparts on certain government jobs. It's called Prevailing Wage. It takes out the "lowest bidder" element, and it was voted into law by the legislature. So, it often is the state that enacts socialism, and that changes the playing field for everyone. There is a place for everyone in capitalism, as long as the laws we enact don't circumvent competition.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  7. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by snipe70e View Post
    What causes unions to push for this is now if a majority of the employees want a union the company with fair lawyers can put off the election for months and in cases years. In the mean time the employeer will attempt to eliminate any employee who wants the union. By signing the card you make yourself a target of the employeer. The employeer will hold anti union meetings. And the truth and what is said at these meetings are normally two different things.

    I worked for a large company that owned office prolerty. In december a chief in one building was employee of the year for the bay area. The next year after the company lied and threatened the employees an election was lost. The same employee was fired by the same property managers because he was imcompedent and had been for years. I ended up loosing my job because of that election. And tenants began to move out because of the service they were recieving from the non union engineers.
    Bull! The unions have already lobbyied for and achieved having laws making it illegal for companies to fight the unionization of their employees.

    Unions cannot make it by fair means so they have to pay off politicians to pass laws that will allow them to bully their way into companies. There is currently not one law allowing companies to dissuade their employees from voting union, but there are umpteen laws preventing employers from holding anti-union meetings or letting pro-union employees go. I've been through this crap with the unions and was threatened every step of the way, not just by the unions but by our legal system. I was not allowed to make any attempt to dissuade my employees from voting for unionization.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I don't want to start a flame war, but I am not able to infer any of what you suggested from what he wrote.
    Dowadudda says:
    I am there because the pay is better, by more than 20% considering all compensation than I could see in a non union shop. I am a high class prostitute.

    My affiliation begins and ends with my own performance and pay.

    The minute you get in the way of my financial goals, I will move on.

    So. I guess what I am saying is the reason I don't care, is because I really don't
    Last edited by mikelcs; 12-27-2008 at 01:30 PM.
    mike

  9. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by snipe70e View Post
    You do not have to reveal that you have signed a card. When the union pitions the NLRB for an election the cards are submitted. The union then asked the employeer if these are your employees? Also when the employees or the union have a meeting there is always someone who will run back to the bosses and tell them everything that was discussed, and who said what.

    On thing that really needs to noted is what you said about signing a card does not give you protection.
    So, the union has the right to keep signed cards secret but don't want employees to have the right to a secret vote? Yea, that sounds like a real "fair employee choice act".

    There is nothing about this "act" that treats the "employee, fair" or gives the "employee a choice". This is another way for unions to force the perceived desires of the few on the majority for the purpose of union gain.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Without posting the whole quote from above, there is a great difference between collectivism (socialism) and collective bargaining.

    In Pennsylvania, for example, we have a law that puts non-union contractor employees on the same pay scale as their union counterparts on certain government jobs. It's called Prevailing Wage. It takes out the "lowest bidder" element, and it was voted into law by the legislature. So, it often is the state that enacts socialism, and that changes the playing field for everyone. There is a place for everyone in capitalism, as long as the laws we enact don't circumvent competition.
    This prevailing wage is due to the Davis-Bacon act which is one of the ways our government protects 7% of the workforce over the rest of the workforce.

    By requiring prevailing wages, our government has increased to cost of every project payed for by all taxpayers so that unionized companies can compete in the bid to do the job. Without this government protection, unions would never win a government job and everything would cost less and our taxes would be able to decrease.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #76
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    Thumbs down lopsided laws

    Robin is correct about the federal laws protecting unions. There have been laws enforced that, for instance will force an owner to keep his shop open rather than close it down at the threat of unionization. He will go to jail or pay heavy fines if he attemts to say one word anti-union or if he make any change in the company benefits or pay structure. Once the union nazis walk in the door, he no longer owns his own company and his hands are tied. The gov't can and has forced companies to stay in existence until they go bankrupt all because of unions. Look at all the industry that has closed here and moved offshore or to Mexico.

    Ever wondered why the mob and the socialists are in bed with unions? Because the hard part is already done for them. The masses are already under the control of one central person or circle. All they have to do is substitute their regime for the organizers and there you have it: union tradesmen working for the mob or a few socialist elitist. Funny, union tradesmen will bash corporate execs. for their outrageous salaries, bonuses, pensions and perks as they sign over the same perks to union thugs. Who's kidding who?

    At least mikelcs as the balls to admit he is a whore.

    What's the difference btw a union and non-union tradesman? The union guy is always looking inwards towards himself and screw the rest of the world. As long as he gets what he feels is his "fair share" (warning--"fairness" is a socialist term!), he could care less if the world goes into the toilet or not.

    Unions are just like drug pushers. They get you hooked on their junk so you sell your soul to them.
    Hearthman

  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Not very comforting, is it? This is the sort of thing that will cause violent reactions from those who feel that they have no legal recourse in protecting their rights.
    I believe this will die in the Senate, because even its proponents know its passage will lead to their being blamed for a REAL recession.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    At least mikelcs as the balls to admit he is a whore.
    Don't feel lonely mike...plenty of blue collar and white collar whores on this board.

    I might resemble that remark.

    Yet, I will bust my butt to earn my paycheck.
    Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.

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