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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavyevans View Post
    My mistake, I'm still learning proper etiquette for online forums. This is the only one I have ever participated in.

    I believe everyone involved should have the choice to cast a secret ballot.



    Uh... no. This is from the ABC website.

    ABC was founded in 1950 when seven contractors gathered in Baltimore, Md. to create an association based on the shared belief that construction projects should be awarded on merit to the most qualified and responsible low bidders. Their courage and dedication to the merit shop philosophy spread rapidly, and within time, ABC became the fastest-growing association in the United States. Today, ABC is recognized as one of the leading organizations representing America's business community and the U.S. construction industry.
    The Employee Free Choice Act would take away the employees right to vote.

    I did not know that ABC was formed by contractors. Still, it is just a lobbying and training organization and does not have any control of contracting companies.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #54
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    Jun 2008
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    Im not necessarily anti or pro union. But this EFCA has disaster written all over it and I have to think that anyone with basic common sense can see that. It seems to me that this is a move to overcome the fact that the unions are unable to organize on their own merit. To me this is about workers rights be taken away. And I believe this effects all of us union or non union. I would think twice before you say this doesnt effect you and there is nothing you can do about it.

  3. #55
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    Obama and the democratic dominated congress were bought and paid for largely by unions.

    You don't think that there will be a quid pro quo?

    I do.

    This will be rammed through as law. Possibly under aspices of raising the standard of living for everyone by making it easier to unionize.

    In a recession, the sheeple will swallow it like they do everything else.

  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Anyone aware of this? Any opinions? I have a feeling I know how this one will be divided amongst our members here, but I am hoping everyone at least knows what is going on.

    http://www.workforcefairness.com/

    As far as freedom and liberty are concerned, a secret ballot election is an almost "sacred" right.

    Period.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  5. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    houston, texas
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    3,787
    I'd prefer to remain free
    I'm not tolerating Political Correctness anymore, from now on it's tell it like it is.

    Veto Pro Pak - The best tool bag you'll ever own






  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    . Unionizers will know who signed cards and who didn't and so will be able to pressure those who didn't sign. .
    What causes unions to push for this is now if a majority of the employees want a union the company with fair lawyers can put off the election for months and in cases years. In the mean time the employeer will attempt to eliminate any employee who wants the union. By signing the card you make yourself a target of the employeer. The employeer will hold anti union meetings. And the truth and what is said at these meetings are normally two different things.

    I worked for a large company that owned office prolerty. In december a chief in one building was employee of the year for the bay area. The next year after the company lied and threatened the employees an election was lost. The same employee was fired by the same property managers because he was imcompedent and had been for years. I ended up loosing my job because of that election. And tenants began to move out because of the service they were recieving from the non union engineers.
    Old snipes don't die they just loose their steam

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by snipe70e View Post
    The next year after the company lied and threatened the employees an election was lost.
    so is it any different or somehow, more ethical for the union to lie and threaten employees to get the election pushed through?

    If you were a member, you must have had no worries when you lost your job because the local had another job all lined up for you. I know that this must be the case because I heard the promise come straight from the horse's mouth.
    mike

  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by snipe70e View Post
    What causes unions to push for this is now if a majority of the employees want a union the company with fair lawyers can put off the election for months and in cases years. In the mean time the employeer will attempt to eliminate any employee who wants the union. By signing the card you make yourself a target of the employeer. The employeer will hold anti union meetings. And the truth and what is said at these meetings are normally two different things.

    I worked for a large company that owned office prolerty. In december a chief in one building was employee of the year for the bay area. The next year after the company lied and threatened the employees an election was lost. The same employee was fired by the same property managers because he was imcompedent and had been for years. I ended up loosing my job because of that election. And tenants began to move out because of the service they were recieving from the non union engineers.
    I agreee that these things do not always go smoothly, or have the intended outcome. That is how "life" works. I have been a member of three unions in my life. Signing a card does not provide any legal protection from being fired. Smart folks do not reveal that they are pro union before or after a company election. And, other smart people do not sign cards that will essentially put the company out of business if the business has a poor managment team, a weak business model, or just general incompetence that will make a unionized version of their company a "one month wonder."

    There is no excuse for ANY American being forced to share how they vote, on ANYTHING. That is the bottom line. Anything else smacks of tyranny.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by temco View Post
    Im not necessarily anti or pro union. But this EFCA has disaster written all over it and I have to think that anyone with basic common sense can see that. It seems to me that this is a move to overcome the fact that the unions are unable to organize on their own merit. To me this is about workers rights be taken away. And I believe this effects all of us union or non union. I would think twice before you say this doesnt effect you and there is nothing you can do about it.
    This is pretty much how I feel about this.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I agreee that these things do not always go smoothly, or have the intended outcome. That is how "life" works. I have been a member of three unions in my life. Signing a card does not provide any legal protection from being fired. Smart folks do not reveal that they are pro union before or after a company election. And, other smart people do not sign cards that will essentially put the company out of business if the business has a poor managment team, a weak business model, or just general incompetence that will make a unionized version of their company a "one month wonder."

    There is no excuse for ANY American being forced to share how they vote, on ANYTHING. That is the bottom line. Anything else smacks of tyranny.

    You do not have to reveal that you have signed a card. When the union pitions the NLRB for an election the cards are submitted. The union then asked the employeer if these are your employees? Also when the employees or the union have a meeting there is always someone who will run back to the bosses and tell them everything that was discussed, and who said what.

    On thing that really needs to noted is what you said about signing a card does not give you protection.
    Old snipes don't die they just loose their steam

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikelcs View Post
    so is it any different or somehow, more ethical for the union to lie and threaten employees to get the election pushed through?

    If you were a member, you must have had no worries when you lost your job because the local had another job all lined up for you. I know that this must be the case because I heard the promise come straight from the horse's mouth.
    Ya the union can really hold a big stick over you!!!! If you don't vote for union we will have your employeer fire you, or we will not let you join. That is a strong threat I am sure.

    Never heard our local promise anyone a job. Promised help. I had to call the union placement office to find out which employeers were looking for an engineer. With out the union all I would have had was the newspapers. And most of the jobs in the paper were wanting lots of experience at below entry level pay and no benifits.
    Old snipes don't die they just loose their steam

  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by snipe70e View Post
    You do not have to reveal that you have signed a card. When the union pitions the NLRB for an election the cards are submitted. The union then asked the employeer if these are your employees? Also when the employees or the union have a meeting there is always someone who will run back to the bosses and tell them everything that was discussed, and who said what.

    On thing that really needs to noted is what you said about signing a card does not give you protection.
    Here is the fly in the ointment:

    When the union asks the employer if these are your employees, he then knows EXACTLY who want the union. Then, if you have arrived say, two minutes later three times, you are suddenly out of a job.

    Under this plan, you will be wondering if your car was mysteriously damaged in the lot, or who knows what.

    No, a vote should always be a secret from those who want to pressure you. They need to remove the showing of cards to the employers, and instead, check the names against a list he provides.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  13. #65
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    one of the reasons why I think it's not a big deal is because, I believe a non union shop is that for a reason just as a union shop is one for a reason.

    I can not see a well run non union shop with good talent be organized, no matter how hard it is the union or mole tries. I have seen it fail many times. By the time a guy gets into his career a bit, he is pretty much gonna be where he is at in his mind set about how he feels. And so, if he finds himself in a non union environment, chances are, overwhelmingly, he is gooing to lean heavily non union in his mind and his thoughts. That's fine.

    I am union now. I work for a union shop. A shop which everyone, including the owners who started it, were always union. When the owners began their shop, they basically were union techs, who became union owners. So it runs deep into the heart and soul of many of my coworkers. I am considered "white ticket" since I did not apprentice through the union. I was simply invited to be on board and awarded Journeymen based on my merit.

    So I work with guys who have been union all their life. And they think in a different way. It seems them guys NEED that sense of belonging to something. They seem to NEED the feeling of secuirty of their organization. Many of them are great at what they do, absolutely awesome, but then a little naive about anything else. They can't figure how a guy who doesn't apprentice through their school could somehow eek out an existence. At first you think thats arrogant. When in the end it's ignorance. Many of them don't and can't understand for a minute how the world outside is. It's a very closed world to them and to most of them that is okay. Many of us here, are obviously not like that.

    I don't think like a Union guy. I am there because the pay is better, by more than 20% considering all compensation than I could see in a non union shop. I am a high class prostitute. LOL. And so for me that's it. And I am willing to gamble and say, the higher talented echelon service techs insiode our hall are mostly "white ticket". There is a real difference. If all service techs inside the hall had the "union" attitude, none of these union shops would have any customers, or make any money. Were all just there for the money. Were not there to be HO HO PRO union.

    I could do just fine, on my own in a little white truck. Or working for this shop. Or working for a MOM and POP. Or a larger non union. My affiliation begins and ends with my own performance and pay. I don't need the union one day longer than they stop helping me obtain my financial goals. The minute you get in the way of my financial goals, I will move on.

    So. I guess what I am saying is the reason I don't care, is because I really don't The best top cream of the crop guys don't concern themselves. The reason why, we don't need to. This is about geting something out of something for nothing. And most top guys know that, were not anything about that. We are just there for the money. And that shade of gray takes many forms. It's Union today, it's non union next. Or whatever.
    People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

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